Marco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4161 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1330 times:
DL tried DXB/CAI. The flight didn't do well at all. They started off with 3X weekly flights using a MD11. They were supposed to downgrade the aircraft to a B767-300 but 9/11 changed that. Instead they discontinued the flight.
TWA used to fly to CAI/RUH but when AA took over they stopped the flight, because it wasn't profitable anymore.
I don't think we'll ever see more US airlines in the ME. Why? Because the demand isn't there, and most Middle Eastern airlines already have a stronghold on the market (LY, KU, MS, etc). Also, EK is going to start flights to JFK/LAX/YYZ/ORD starting in 2003 using DXB as a connecting hub.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1293 times:
Why do you insist upon a non-political reason when there may not be? At the surface we need to be careful about who now comes into our country...and having flights from that region only hurts that effort. Also, our own people would not fill the planes to that region (because of fear) and people over there would choose their own regional carriers (Emirates, Saudi) or some neutral carrier (British Airways).
Marco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4161 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1250 times:
I heard that the yields were very low. Also, the RUH-CAI sector was doing very well but the CAI-JFK sector wasn't doing that well...
LY772 From Israel, joined Aug 2001, 1340 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1237 times:
"Why don't US airlines have flights to Arab Middle Eastern countries?"
What about Jewish Middle Eastern Countries? (PS: There's only one, and I'll give you 3 guesses)
David B. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1227 times:
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15989 posts, RR: 59 Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1220 times:
If there was market potential, US carriers would be there.
The Arab flag carriers are all govt owned and hardly have a strong bottom line focus....they fly to the US for prestige, not profit.
Let's face it.....most Arab countries are poor with few business conx to the US and generally non-entrepreneurial economies. There is thus little business traffic betw the US and Arab countries.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Scottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6358 posts, RR: 34 Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1213 times:
US carriers aren't serving the Middle East precisely because of political, security, and economic considerations. The majority of passengers on U.S. flag carriers to the Middle East would generally be Americans; however, the level of anti-American sentiment and risk of being the target of a terror attack keeps most Americans away from that region of the world. People don't forget things like a group of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists shooting up a busload of German tourists in the middle of Cairo thinking that they were Americans.
A U.S. airline flying to the Middle East automatically makes itself a target of terrorists by raising its profile in that part of the world. Not only does that pose serious security concerns at their operation in the Middle East; it also increases the risk of security problems at their operations worldwide.
But as others have said, the economics play an important role. A U.S. carrier would be forced to compete against well-established government-subsidized carriers in that part of the world. It's easier to simply add a limited presence through codesharing.
Scottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6358 posts, RR: 34 Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1206 times:
US carriers aren't serving the Middle East precisely because of political, security, and economic considerations. The majority of passengers on U.S. flag carriers to the Middle East would generally be Americans; however, the level of anti-American sentiment and risk of being the target of a terror attack keeps most Americans away from that region of the world. People don't forget things like a group of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists shooting up a busload of German tourists in the middle of Cairo thinking that they were Americans.
A U.S. airline flying to the Middle East automatically makes itself a target of terrorists by raising its profile in that part of the world. Not only does that pose serious security concerns at their operation in the Middle East; it also increases the risk of security problems at their operations worldwide.
But as others have said, the economics play an important role. A U.S. carrier would be forced to compete against well-established government-subsidized carriers in that part of the world. It's easier to simply add a limited presence through codesharing.
DCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4402 posts, RR: 37 Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1188 times:
Good analysis, Scottb. Why should US carriers put their people, pax, and planes at risk when there isn't money to be made? Middle Easterers who want to get to the US have their own government-subsidized carriers, and everyone can go through Europe if needed. Service exists on carriers that can profit from it or are subsidized to offer it, it's just not all nonstop.
Any update on how many of these carriers are submitting their US pax manifests for US scrutiny against the feds' terrorist-suspect database? As of last summer none of them were. Did Congress actually require this last fall, or did we back down to please the Saud family?
OD-BWH From Lebanon, joined Jan 2002, 398 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1130 times:
Why did I say "arab middle eastern countries"? b'coz i know that there are flights for TW (and now AA i guess) and for Delta into TLV... Plz correct me if i'm mistaken.
Scottb, thanks for your nice analysis... but actually I know all political reasons, and that's why i stressed on non-political issues. Actually most members are diverting from the main issue to discuss other subjects.
I would like to remind you that there are Arab Americans who regularily visit the Middle East, in addition to the Arabs living there. I think these will fill the plane to the neck at any flight. Btw, pax to the US and Canada from the ME count for around 60% of the total pax using European carriers. So can you imagine how happy will CO be if they screwd BA and AF?
Mls515 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3069 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1120 times:
I think most would be just as happy to feed the passengers to their European partners.
OD-BWH From Lebanon, joined Jan 2002, 398 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1106 times:
I'm quite sure that TWA once operated a flight between TLV and JFK. I think it's over now with AA taking over TW.
The main losers, I guess, are United and NWA, b'coz they've never had any presence in the region. I don't think a partner can take the place of the original airline. Here are LH and KLM: they both are operating to more cities in the US and S. America, while keeping their ties with the americans'.
DCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4402 posts, RR: 37 Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1072 times:
OD-BWH, you seem to miss the point that ScottB and others have brought up. Several of the USA Cartel carriers *have* tried service to Arab Middle Eastern countries, and they *haven't* been "filled to the neck" with passengers, or they'd still be flying. That means that these airlines can't make money on those routes.
Also, government ownership or subsidies of Middle Eastern carriers is not simply a 'political' factor. It is very much an economic factor that helps these carriers make money more easily.
Might there be other reasons that Middle Easterners fly European and Middle Eastern carriers to the USA? Perhaps they have a certain amount of patriotism and like to support their home carriers? Or perceive something desirable about European carriers that they do not, about American carriers? It's no secret that a lot of Middle Easterners don't like the USA, even though they are quite happy to live here and earn our money. Might they prefer to support home carriers?
It's not possible to neatly separate cultural, social, and political factors the way you seem to suppose. Each affects the others. Whatever the factors, services by USA airlines to the Middle East haven't made money. For carriers in the USA, that's the bottom line, and for that reason they haven't for the most part endured.
Flydeltasjets From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 210 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1045 times:
Maybe it's because the a$$holes keep blowing up our airplanes.
Teva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1868 posts, RR: 17 Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1026 times:
Here can be a non political reason for the failure of US carriers in the region:
If you compare the service by Emirates to the service of US caarriers, you wil quickly make your choice.....
And fly Emirates.
It is not patriotism. It is just common sense....
Nana...
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
26 Airzim: Goingboeing? Thanks for that very helpful and insightful comment. First of all who is "they" Secondly have you been to any Middles Eastern country? I
27 Goingboeing: Well Airzim - would you be the first to board a big silver bird with the word AMERICAN painted on the side that is heading to the mideast?
28 Thomasphoto60: I agree with Airzim, as I have traveled extensively throughout of N.Africa and the Mid-East and I never experinced any open hostility. Before judging
29 Goingboeing: Before ramming 4 airliners into buildings and the ground, I suggest spending less time in the jihad and more time out with civilized people.
30 Mah4546: This is getting ridiculous. I have traveled extensivley throughout the Middle East, including the U.A.E., Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt, and
31 Flydeltasjets: When planes are intentionally blown up, middle easterners do it almost 100% of the time. When people blow up planes, I call them a$$holes. Therefore,
32 Mah4546: flydeltajets, you have serious problems. There are many Middle Easterners on this board right here that do not go around blowing up airplanes. In fact
33 Seagull: U.S. freight operators do go to the middle east.
34 Flydeltasjets: Mah, Did I say that all middle easterners blow up airplanes? No. What I did say is that the a$$holes keep blowing up planes. Those a$$holes are almost
35 Teva: goingboeing, you say: Before ramming 4 airliners into buildings and the ground, I suggest spending less time in the jihad and more time out with civil
36 Flying-Tiger: Hell, when I read this topic I´m not really surprised that US citizens are not really beloved in many countries. Most of them behave in a completely
37 OD-BWH: Mah: I won't reply to any insult if I were you!! I've been trying to make good relationships with people around, but it seems like they are filled wit
38 OD-BWH: MEA: I made up this registration number OD-BWH
39 Fly_emirates: guys, if US carriers flew to the middle east.. it wouldnt be profitable for them. because as a flight attendant, i heard from many passengers that the
40 OD-BWH: I've been told by a friend who flown Gulf Air non-stop from BAH to JFK a couple of years ago, that it was extremely exhausting. No one I guess can tol
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