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Begian Pilots Are Looking For Support  
User currently offlineMd-11er From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 201 posts, RR: 3
Posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

The Belgian Pilots are looking for some support, they ask those who want to fill their petition.
You can find it at:
http://64.4.20.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=NL&lah=877a7848426ab9376e6caa45c787be1b&lat=1011884921&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ebeca%2ebe

As an ex-SN Cabin Crew Member I signed it of course.
I hope to see a new Belgian carrier asap.

MD-11er

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

Sorry MD-11er, I can't reach your link -->error

Rgds.
Spitfire



Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
User currently offlineMd-11er From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 201 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2393 times:

Sorry, go try this:

http://www.beca.be/

and click on the small window that opens in the top left corner.


User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2899 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

I guess normally you have to be a citizen of Belgium to sign such a list, don't you  Confused

User currently offlineSpitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

I think that everybody is welcome. The more signature, the best...
Spitfire



Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
User currently offlineSN-A330 From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 1129 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2355 times:

Ndebele,

You don't have to be a citizen of Belgium. Like Spitfire said, the more signatures, the better. I think even Ceilidh will post in the petition !

Regards, SN-A330



I would rather be flying...
User currently offlineA330DAT From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 469 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Very good idea MD-11er  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineMd-11er From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 201 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2333 times:

Yeah Ceilidh,
be a good guy, sign the petition.
 Smokin cool


User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2899 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

I have signed it. "Up to now, 369 people have signed this e-petition".

369 people? That's very few! How many signatures do they need?

ps: I'm still not sure if my German signature counts. I'm not a lawyer, but afaik according to German law, which is European law (i.e. Belgian law?), you need to be citizen of the affected country. In this case, we try to convince the state of Belgium to spend Belgian tax-payer money in supporting Belgian pilots. But heck, at worst they will not accept my signature. I really hope this (foreign) signature helped.


User currently offlineMd-11er From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 201 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2329 times:

369 is few because they just begab their petition.
It will grow for sure.
Even if your vote doesn't count (what I am not sure off so it might count) we are very happy that you support us.
 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Me, Support BeCA?!?!

Perhaps if they hadn't been so arrogant, they would still have jobs.

As far as I am concerned, it's BeCA that is directly responsible for the collapse of both SR and SN - due to their intransigence over Muller's Survival Plan' which caused SAir Group's banker's to pull the plug.


User currently offlineApuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3032 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

There you go...I signed the petition as well

Ivan



Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
User currently offlineDe727ups From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 814 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2272 times:

I signed it. I'm in support of anything Ceilidh doesn't support....

User currently offlineSpitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2268 times:

Ceilidh as usual didn't understand that ALL the jobless pilots in Belgium have to face that problem. Not only those Sabenian affiliated at the BeCA but all the others as well (Citybird,...).
This is not supporting the BeCA , it's just to support PILOTS !!!

But Ceilidh is not a pilot, so he can't understand what is the meaning of that kind of support (he is just an ugly businessman without business)!!
What else can we expect from that guy?



Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
User currently offlineSpitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Here is the mail from the BeCA (in three languages!):

PILOTS WITHOUT A LICENCE...
Dear Madam, Dear Sir,

How would you feel if you were looking for a job and your diploma expires from one day to another? That is what we, pilots are living right now.

It has been 3 months now since City Bird and Sabena went bankrupt and there is still no solution available today to keep our licences current neither for the young pilots who still have loans to pay for their education which costs € 75.000 (3.000.000BEF).

We have set up an "e-petition" now to gather support for our struggle for our licences. You can find it on the following site : http://www.beca.be as well as some more information about our problem.

If you want to support us even more we would be very grateful to you if you could forward this mail to your address directory.

If you prefer not to support this matter, we would like to apologize us for having sent this mail to you.

We do wish you all the best for 2002!

For the BeCA

Annick Lebbe
Vice Presidente BeCA Job Seekers Joël Gans
Vice President BeCA ex-Sabena Léo D'hondt
President BeCA



PILOTEN ZONDER DIPLOMA
Mevrouw, Mijnheer,

Wat zou u, als werkzoekende, ervan vinden indien uw diploma van de ene dag op de andere vervalt? Dat is wat wij, piloten nu meemaken.

Reeds 3 maanden geleden gingen City Bird en Sabena failliet en vandaag is er nog steeds geen oplossing voor de problematiek van de piloten betreffende het onderhoud van hun diploma's (vliegvergunning met kwalificaties) evenmin voor de jonge piloten die nog hun leningen van € 75.000 (3.000.000BEF) moeten aflossen voor de kosten van hun beroepsopleiding.

Wij hebben nu een "e-petitie" op touw gezet waarin eenieder onze strijd voor onze diploma's kan steunen op de volgende site : http://www.beca.be. U vindt er tevens meer informatie.

Indien u ons nog meer wil steunen, zouden wij u zeer dankbaar zijn indien u deze mail ook wil forwarden naar uw adressenbestand.

Indien u liever niet op onze oproep ingaat, gelieve ons dan te verontschuldigen dat wij u deze mail hebben toegestuurd.

Wij wensen u in ieder geval het allerbeste toe voor het jaar 2002!

Voor de BeCA,

Annick Lebbe
Vice Presidente BeCA Job Seekers Joël Gans
Vice President BeCA ex-Sabena Léo D'hondt
President BeCA




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PILOTES SANS LICENCES...
Madame, Monsieur,

Comment vous sentiriez vous si vous cherchiez du travail et que votre diplôme pour exercer votre métier venait à expirer d'un jour à l'autre ? Eh bien, c'est ce que les pilotes vivent aujourd'hui.

Cela fait 3 mois que City Bird et Sabena ont fait faillite et il n'y a, à ce jour, aucune solution pour le maintien de nos licences. De plus, aucune solution n'est trouvée pour les jeunes pilotes qui ont des prêts à rembourser pour leur formation (coût de € 75.000, soit 3.000.000BEF).

Nous organisons une "e-pétition" afin d'avoir votre appui pour notre lutte pour nos licences. Vous la trouverez sur le site suivant : http://www.beca.be. Vous y trouverez également d'autres informations concernant la problématique pilote.

Si vous le désirez, nous vous serions reconnaissants d'envoyer ce courrier à votre liste d'adresses.

Si vous préférez ne pas soutenir notre initiative, veuillez nous excuser de vous avoir importuné par l'envoi de ce message.

Nous vous souhaitons tout le meilleur pour 2002!

Pour BeCA

Annick Lebbe
Vice Presidente BeCA Job Seekers Joël Gans
Vice President BeCA ex-Sabena Léo D'hondt
President BeCA


Many thanks for your support.
Rgds.
Spitfire




Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

No way! They brought the problem on themselves. Did the Topic line mean to say, "Begging Pilots Are Looking For Support"? When Belgium changes its uncompetitive labor laws and when the unions realize they have to compete in a global, competitive economy, then I'll sign.
I hope Ryanair is keeping track of the troublemakers at BeCA and don't hire them as they expand and grow.


User currently offlineILS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

I signed it.

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Come on, Spitfire, I respect your opinion and perspective. No need to use expletives. I do wish you well, but not your former union.

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

I just re-read the petition. BeCA has learned NOTHING. Government is not the solution to your problems. Big government is evil, anti-jobs, anti-competitive and expensive. Look to your own strengths as individuals, but don't look to government to bail you out. The less government involvement in our economy and our lives, the better.

User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Whatever Bicoastal....  Insane

User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6588 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

Signed.

User currently offlineSpitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

Thanks to those who already signed. For those who are still hesitating, please show us your solidarity.
Rgds.
Spitfire



Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
User currently offlineSam the Lab From Ireland, joined Aug 2001, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Hey, Belgian Pilots, do you remember Virgin Express Ireland? An amount of Belgian nastiness played a part in VEI's downfall. Would not sign a petition for Belgian pilots for all the tea in China!

User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Let me amplify my previous statement.

Basically, what this 'petition' amounts to is BeCA (a notoriously militant union responsible for the loss of thousands of jobs across Europe) demanding(!) that the government pay for their actions.

Anywhere else in the rest of the world, if you are a pilot and get made redundant, it's down to you to make sure that you maintain your currency if you want to stay in the business. If that means going off and flying for peanuts in Africa or paying for recurrent checks out of your own pocket - so be it.

If BeCA hadn't thought that they could play childish brinkmanship games with Christoph Muller over the Sabena Survival Plan, then they could still be flying their aircraft. However, the reality is that BeCA was directly responsible for the loss of all the VEI jobs as [b]Sam the Lab[/b] correctly pointed out; together with those at Swissair and other SAir Group companies.

Indeed, one might well question why - if they are so concerned about the welfare of their members - they simply don't lease a simulator or two themselves?


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2865 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Great, so BeCA is going to have a petition signed by hundreds of spotty school kids who use this server.....the grown ups are REALLY going to pay attention to that !!!

Ceilidh is absolutely 100% correct.

Despite how much the ex-SN staff bleat and moan, the facts are there that they and BeCA brought this all on themselves, virtually unassisted.

Sabena GONE
SAir Group GONE
CityBird GONE
VEI GONE

Brinksmanship is too generous a way to describe the attitude and behaviour of BeCA. They kick and scream when they don't get what they want; they act as if the world owes its members a living.
Arrogance, Ignorance and Immaturity would better describe them.....just look at how personal they get on this forum alone when someone voices dissent.

Sabena could have been saved.

As usual, BeCA and Sabena crews saw it as an opportunity to feather their own nests even more; sadly, they yet again pushed too far, only this time they pushed the golden egg well and truly out of the basket.

Shamu



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
25 Spitfire : Waooww!!!! ... What a powerfull union the BeCA is then !!!! Completly insane. Proof that all those people here do not know the first word of what they
26 Spitfire : Look at what C.Mûller said in "Le Soir" recently (sorry only in french): Transport aérien Le dernier patron de la Sabena estime que le refus de Swis
27 Spitfire : And also this: Transport aérien Swissair a trahi, accuse Müller L'ex-patron de la Sabena revient sur la mort de la compagnie lesoir BERNARD DEMONTY
28 Spitfire : Some more : « La DAT aurait dû démarrer plus vite » Vous assistez, à présent, au décollage de la nouvelle DAT. Le plan mis en œuvre pour la no
29 Spitfire : And finaly: « La faillite, mon pire moment » Christoph Müller, le dernier patron de la Sabena, rassemble actuellement ses dossiers, avant de quitte
30 BlueShamu330s : Spitfire Might I suggest a clearer picture can be taken by people on the outside looking in than by someone who is understandably emotional and aggrie
31 Post contains images Ceilidh : Spitfire - you described BeCA as "completely insane". You're absolutely spot on, they were. When you get to the point where outsiders are accurately a
32 Spitfire : Sorry, Ceilidh, but in my opinion, it's YOU and some others here who are insane. How can you say that a small group of people (+/- 1000 pilots) from a
33 Tca256 : I signed the petition and friends as well....good luck to all of you, ex-workers at SN, Citybird and other defunct companies.....
34 Ndebele : To anybody who has signed lately - can you keep us updated how many people have signed already? Because I didn't find any link telling you the actual
35 Spitfire : Ok, Ndebele, I'll try to keep you informed about that. Rgds and thank you Spitfire
36 Hoffa : How can you say that a small group of people (+/- 1000 pilots) from an professionnal association (AND NOT AN UNION !!! that makes a lot of difference
37 A330DAT : Ndebele - Where did you see those figures?
38 Post contains links 310_engineer : Okay I signed too together with my wife, it's normal that I support them. But there is something else I would like to have your attention for: Today 7
39 A330DAT : I will support you too Mike. You have just as many rights as anyone else. It has not been clear in the past but let it be clear today that we can NOT
40 Post contains links Spitfire : Hoffa, Here is a copy of a page from the BeCA site: http://www.beca.be. Maybe could you see more clearly what is the aim of a pilot association. -- Th
41 Hoffa : I don't wish any ill will to any ex-Sabena engineers, pilots, or F/A's. Personally I wish the old SN could take flight again just so these people coul
42 Spitfire : Hoffa, Effectively, the BeCA is NOT an labor union (it's a recognized and official 'professional association' and so has no legal right to call for a
43 Ceilidh : Spitfire - if that's the case, how come they were taken to court by SN over their illegal social actions - and the court ruled that these actions were
44 Spitfire : You are not very well informed Ceilidh. First, in an "summary procedure", court said that we have to stop the strike. BUT, when later they examined th
45 Post contains images Ceilidh : Really? Then how come one of the conditions of BeCA's going to the negotiating table was that SN had to forego its award from the court? And that they
46 Spitfire : If I do remember well it took more that one month for the case to be re-examinated by the court. In meantime, we tried to have negotiation with SN. Th
47 Post contains images Stratofish : Just signed the petition. Didn´t have to think twice before doing. However there was no number of how many already signed it. "if that's the case, ho
48 Gaut : Ceilidh, Beca responsible for the SR bankruptcy...You are soooooooo stupid Spitfire J'ai signé la pétition, bonne chance à tous et laisse tomber ce
49 BlueShamu330s : Gaut I see you are a student; perhaps a lesson in recent Belgian aviation history is needed before you come out with judgement on Ceilidh. The bigger
50 Gaut : Shamu, I know the Belgian aviation history and sabena very well and if I don"t come with fact it's because everytime I try to explain the SN-SR case t
51 A330DAT : Hey BlueShamu, I hope you're not as ignorant and nearsighted as Ceilidh. As an outsider he has absolutely no idea what's going on and then judges peop
52 Spitfire : A330DAT, By the way did you see any post of our beloved friend concerning SAirgroup, Swissair and Crossair ? I don't remember... He is only "against S
53 Yyz717 : Why can't these pilots start different carriers? What do they expect the Belgian govt to do? Bail them out? Haven't the hapless Belgian tax payers for
54 Spitfire : Xyz717, You should be born on March or somewhere in outer space. You do not know anything about SAbena. In 1982 we had a 17% salary cut, in 1990 the s
55 Post contains links Spitfire : For those who cares about our petition here are the figures: --> Saturday 26th we received 1992 signatures. Thank you, continue like that. Go and have
56 Spitfire : Monday at noon we had 2100+ signatures. Thanks a lot and continue to sign and spread this idea around you. Thinks are slowly moving here, but they are
57 Post contains images MD-11er : Hey Spitfire, What are the support figures for the moment? Hi Ceilidh I voted for you under your name. I am sure you don't mind.
58 Post contains images Sabena 690 : Hey MD11, What a beautifull thing!!! I would also just set it on the forum, didn't saw that you did it I asked everybody on the chat and of my family
59 Sabena 690 : Hey MD-11er and all the other Sabena-fans and voters, Does anyone know how many drawings this e-petition already received?? Sorry Ceilidh and the othe
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