Canadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10297 times:
I want to thank my good friend in Denmark for alerting me to the website listed below. In this site is the horrible, volitale history and horrifying events that occured when this deplorable charter carrier, Nationair Canada, flew the skies. Nationair Canada Ltd. is without a doubt the blackest spot in Canadian aviation history.
I was a Flight Attendant with Worldways Canada Ltd. from 1985-1990. The crews at WG had it good back then. Very good, in fact, when compared to our colleagues at Nationair. I and others who worked in the Canadian aviation industry knew a lot of the shocking behind the scenes drama at Nationair. However, there is some information and facts that I have only recently learned. Believe me, what is contained in this site is the absolute truth. The terrible fact is, there is so much more that is not contained in this website, but nonetheless true.
Why would I post this? Because I personally knew 2 of the Flight Attendants who died a horrible death aboard Nationair Flight 2120 in Jeddah, July 11, 1991. They and the rest of the crew, and indeed the passengers, did not deserve a fate like this. I can still recall the
absolute shock and horror I and other F/A's felt when we learned of the Jeddah crash 11 years ago. Reading through this website brought to light the fact that time sometimes does not heal or diminish the element of sadness. Especially for the families of the crew and pax of Nationair 2120. The true story of Nationair needs to be told, to be remembered, so that at least their deaths were not in vain.
In the Canadian aviation industry, there are those airline CEOs who have a questionable image and reputation with some. Robert Milton of Air Canada and
Angus Kinnear of Canada 3000 to name two. However,
these two men pale in comparison to the former CEO
of Nationair Canada, Robert Obadia. Read the history of Nationair, and you will know just why.
To the crew of Nationair Flight 2120
Lest we Forget.
Rest in Peace.
Note: By accessing GOOGLE, you will find many sites pertaining to Nationair, and the 1991 crash. This is but one example.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16125 posts, RR: 57 Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9872 times:
This site has actually been cleaned up. It used to contain some nasty quotes made by some Quebecois NX staff about some of the NX staff that did die, in particular a couple of the Anglo FA's. The comments were racist and were removed at the request of the dead FA families. Seems that Obadia was not the only shit-head at NX.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Canadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9855 times:
Yes Neil, you are absolutely right about the site being cleaned up, thank God for that, for the families sake.
However, I am pleased that, to coin a phrase, "the Truth is Out There", in regards to NX.
Obadia and the rest of the NX scum can all burn in Hell.
Amongst the crew of Flight 2120, are two individuals I had the pleasure of knowing. How DARE those atrocious comments be stated by any human being.
Palebird From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 78 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9718 times:
I used to work for NX a long time ago at YMX. I was hauled before the director of maintenance, director human resources and another individual who started it all off and told to either tow the line or be fired. They gave me two weeks to give them my decision. I took the two weeks and found another job. When I met these three again at the end of the two week period I had great pleasure in telling them to stick it. Their policy was to make flights at any cost. Airworthy or not. I disagreed and was put up to a kangaroo court.I cannot and could not live with that. So I left leaving seniority and good pay and the 747 course behind. But I was so happy to leave. Jeddah was just waiting to happen. And it did. It did not surprise me but it was a crime.
SafeFlyer From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 624 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9705 times:
Of course, my username says it all!
Obadia is in prison I believe, and I hope he'll be there for a long time.
Did you know that the former Vice-President of Nationair (I'm pretty sure he was v-p or 100% sure, part of the management team) was François Legault, founder of Air Transat, and now our Québec education minister. Sure, nobody can say he was as bad as Obadia, but TS stared to have fines AFTER he was replaces by Denis Jacob, so I bet Obadia was acting quite alone, but I maybe mistaken. It was a bad airline, and I'm flying Air Canada in March, hope Mliton hasn't cut the maintenance budget, as it's image would suggest. Reassure me please, some comments make me feel that AC isn't as safe as it was a few years ago.
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56 Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9680 times:
I have been to the nationair site many times, and know a couple of the people who are quoted in the quotes page. I'll leave it at that!
In any case, I was worried when going to Royal Airlines as a flight attendant, about it being a Montreal based airline, and how it would be to work with the French Canadian crews. And I heard stories where there were problems with English and French crews working together.
My first flight was with a Montreal based crew at it was wonderful. In fact, every flight I had with French Canadian crews was fantastic. They are usually very warm people with lots of character. But I have seen where the political and cultural differences have had bad effects on people working together. We all have to understand one another in order to work effectively together.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
VirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9649 times:
This sounds like the Canadian version of Twoer Air but at the lowest level. This is infact the epidimy of evil for aviation! I hope the Canadian Gov has toughed laws against such airlines! Or have they failed yet again?
Ceilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9641 times:
The guy that acted as Contract Manager for the JED operation when the aircraft went down, Mike Sparks, is a good friend of mine who was subsequently hounded and harassed by Obadia and his minions to try and cover for them.
When he wouldn't agree to back up their lies, they tried to heap most of the blame on him, on the basis that it would be their word against his as those who could support Mike were all dead.
Matt From Canada, joined May 1999, 689 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9595 times:
I used to work for NX as a flight attendant when the Jeddah crash happenend. Actually, I had bidded for those flights, but because I had low seniority, I was not chosen.
Nationair was a shabby operation in every sense of the word. You wouldn't believe the things I saw and heard. And you would be horrified at the condition of the equipment they flew. The four DC-8-61s were in horrible shape. The two -62s and the two -63s were at bit better, but still not great. The 747s (ex-Wardair) were getting very, very old. As for the 757s which they inherited from Odyssey International, they were in good shape when NX got them, but a year later, they were in rough shape.
I have the "official" accident report from the Saudi govt here. Too bad it's not on the Web. Clearly, NX is to blame for the Jeddah crash.
Turin_airport From Italy, joined Oct 2001, 278 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9576 times:
What a sad and tragic story. I really hope that people who did these crimes are now locked in prison.
This also shown how important are unions (too many people forget their role in protecting worker's job and dignity).
Canadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9576 times:
Please do not have any doubts about the maintenance standards at Air Canada, my friend. While AC may not be my favourite carrier, and lord knows it has its faults and problems to sort out, it does, however, have an oustanding worldwide reputation for safety. Air Canada's maintenance policies are top-notch.
Matt, you were mentioning the horrid condition of the ex-NX DC-8's. I can recall in 1988 or so, our maintenance crews at Worldways serviced one of the NX DC-8's at NX's request. We normally never serviced their aircraft, but I think this was a one time deal.(Worldways operated 4 ex-CPAir DC-8-63 aircraft). They (WG maintenance crews) told us they were absolutely shocked and appalled at the condition of the aircraft, and refused to "sign off" on it. I don't recall the details, but I do indeed remember Worldways refusing to service any NX aircraft in the future.
Matt From Canada, joined May 1999, 689 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9551 times:
RE the horrid state of NX's aircraft...
The -61s were in rough shape. They were plagued by numerous mechanical problems, but it was especially the inside of the a/c that I recall. The specific a/c involved in the JED crash (C-GMXQ) was referred to by NX staff as "MX Questionnable". Isn't that sad, considering what happened?
The seats were extremely old and had not been replaced in years. One of the -61s did not even have overhead bins. Instead, there was a rack, just like a bus. Too funny. The -61s and -63s had 259 seats (full to capacity), which meant that flight attendant jumpseats had to be installed here and there in the a/c (they were called "highbacks"). They were located where normal passenger seats were located but had high backs and extra seatbelts (straps). It looked really strange. Of course, there were also "normal" forward- and rear-facing jumpseats. The galleys were often "inop", as were the lavatories. On C-GQBF (an ex-Quebecair -63), the rear left door always made a funny noise on takeoff (hence its nickname "QB Fart").
And that's just the beginning. The Operations staff at NX were not always well coordinated. I recall my flight from YMX to LGW on July 12 (the day after the Jeddah crash). We were scheduled on the 747. It went "mechanical". Since they had to fly the 400 and some passengers to London that night, they sent two DC-8s. We left at 3 am back-to-back, but once we got to London, there was no way for the flights to come back (the awaiting pilots were 747 pilots). So the DC8 pilots had to have their minimum crew rest (12 hours), then fly home. The whole schedule was screwed for a week. That's the way it was all the time. I think I've only left on time once or twice...
I was once waiting at immigration at New York's JFK airoprt a few years back, when behind me came a Nationair crew. I will never forget the look on their pale faces. When speaking to them it became clear what had happened. They had problems before the landing and at the moment of touchdown, the DC-8 had lost all hydraulic pressure. The aircraft rolled to a stop at the end of the runway. They didn't even have enough power to turn the nose wheel to taxi to the gate and had to be towed. It was a close one indeed.
Canadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9547 times:
I know exactly what you mean about the NX DC-8
interiors. Once, I worked an SDQ turnaround, arriving SDQ at around 11:00 p.m. Parked next to our WG aircraft was an NX DC-8. As both aircraft arrived within a few minutes of each other, we were on the ground for the same period of time, awaiting the re-catering/grooming and re-boarding of pax for the northbound sector. We ran into an NX Purser and F/A in the terminal who, like us, escaped for a quick cigarette. They "invited" us to see for ourselves what kind of aircraft they had to work on. We walked over to the NX DC-8, and boarded. Shocked does not even begin to describe what we saw. You described it to a T, so I won't elaborate. Worldways may not have been Wardair, but the company did keep it's DC-8's and
L-1011's in very good shape, and CLEAN!
Also, my sister worked for Wardair for 12 years as an F/A and subsequently moved up to Marketing Director by 1986. In 1991, after the PWA buyout of WD, she worked for a firm that sent her to YUL on business.
She groaned as she learned it would be an NX flight (YYZ-YUL). She was even more shocked when she boarded the ex-WD B-747 in YYZ, complete with the original WD interiors. She could not believe how shabby and utterly filthy the interior was. She stated it made her somewhat sad and depressed to see this once
great Wardair aircraft in the state it was under Nationair.
Matt From Canada, joined May 1999, 689 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9533 times:
You're right, Canadi>nBoy. The 747s (the two ex-Wardair ships, the two ex-TWA ships and the rest) were in pretty rough shape. The ex-Wardair (DJC and FUN) had the same seats (every section had a different colour), the aft one being yellow (they called it the sunshine section, where the action was). Filthy is not a strong enough word to describe the state of those aircraft. Plus, the scheduling was so tight that there was hardly any time for grooming and cleaning. However, I must admit that working the 747 was better than working the 8's...
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16125 posts, RR: 57 Reply 23, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9519 times:
Wow....great stories guys!
I was flew a WG DC-8-63 YYZ-ATH (via Prestwick)....12 hours on a -63 but service & aircraft were fine. That was back in 88. Then NX took over the charter route in 89. Ugh.....can you imagine 12 hours in an NX DC-8-61?
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Matt From Canada, joined May 1999, 689 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9512 times:
Actually, I can imagine 12 hours on an NX DC-8. NX would consistently ask (or force!) its crews to work "overtime", even though it was against the rules (Transport Canada, Union, etc.). Some of the turn-arounds were incredibly long, YYZ-PDL-YYZ being the longest I've worked.
However, the flights from YVR to Europe were always the longest. YVR to YYC/YEG to AMS/FRA/LGW/MAN/etc. Very long, but always on the 747.