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No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic  
User currently offlineCactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 25
Posted (13 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

AMR clips Airbus' wings
January 30, 2002: 8:07 a.m. ET

Carrier removes A300 from its trans-Atlantic routes in favor of larger planes.
BOSTON (CNN) - American Airlines is taking its Airbus A300 off its trans-Atlantic routes, and several senior Airbus pilots have decided to switch to flying other jumbo jets.

The scheduling change comes in the wake of the Airbus crash that took 265 lives in New York Nov. 12 when the tail snapped off that plane less than two minutes after takeoff.

The last Airbus to London was scheduled to depart Boston at 9 a.m. ET Wednesday. The last flight back to the United States arrives in Newark, N.J., Thursday afternoon.

With fewer pilots needed, 10 of American's most experienced A300 pilots have exercised their seniority to switch to other planes. Some did so for personal convenience; others expressed safety concerns.

One captain switching to a different plane wrote to American's president a few weeks ago to suggest the tail be removed from an Airbus and taken apart to check for any hidden problems in light of the New York crash.

An American Airlines official said the Airbus is being replaced on trans-Atlantic routes because larger planes are now available, and that the switch was planned before the November accident. But pilot sources said they were told business travelers were hesitant to fly the Airbus and were booking on other airlines.

American Airlines is taking 10 of its remaining 34 A300 Airbus planes out of service while it changes the seating to use them on its flights to the Caribbean. Five will return to the air soon, the other five may be idle until the fall.

American continues to fly the Airbus to San Juan, Santo Domingo, Caracas and Lima, among other destinations. Many of those flights originate in Miami.

The plane that crashed in New York had just departed Kennedy International Airport bound for Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic.

Shares of American parent AMR Corp. (AMR: Research, Estimates) lost $1.12 to $25.07 in trading Wednesday.

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

Wow, so does this mean that they will be using the 777 on BOS-LHR? I mean, they did say they were favoring bigger planes.


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

BOS-LHR operates with a 763, JFK is all 777.

Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3591 times:

I say just remove them and park them.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

On the one hand, 777s would be nice. On the other hand, I think (for the way the market is now, especially) that there is enough capacity between Boston-Heathrow. UA and AA have 3x 767-300s between them; BA is bringing back their triple-daily service with 2x 777s and 1 747-400; and Virgin has a lone 747-400 on the run (soon to be an A340). My math tells me that this is close to 2,000 daily seats. So, while the AA 777 might be a nice sight here in Boston (a UA one too), I'm not sure the market is there to support it. Bottom line: the UK carriers have the decided edge in aircraft selection between the two cities...by far.

User currently offlineBA777 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2184 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Are the A300s gonna start fkying to Antigua, which is in the Caribbean before Feb 13th? If so, i cant wait to see one!

BA777  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3516 times:

CNN in its infinite wisdom is putting together two completely unrelated events. The retirement of the A300 for the North Atlantic routes was announced almost a year ago, well before 9/11 or the Queens crash.

I think if the A300 had been made with a longer range variant, it might have met with more success and orders on the USA-Europe routes. The bean counters love that thing!

User currently offlineParra From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3505 times:

I've been planning a trip to London for a while and every time I check out the available fares one week ahead I also look at the seat selection and usually only 5 or 6 seats are available. Does this mean that only 5 or 6 are available or that they are only available at that fare?

User currently offlineGoAllegheny From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3489 times:

Facts don't sell as well as stories, so I am not surprised that CNN did what it did. Put another way, the media (through ad revenue) do not get rewarded for the stories they don't run.

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3469 times:

Dmitry, why should AA remove and park the A300's? I'm just curious. Is it because it had a crash? So I suppose that all aircraft types which have crashed should be parked.

That would leave 777's and A340's as just about the only aircraft that airlines could operate.

"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineSpinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3467 times:

Many seats are blacked out until the day of the flight, they are usually near the front so FF can take them, or people in wheelchairs, unaccompanied minors, etc can take them.

User currently offlineAOMlover From Singapore, joined Jul 2001, 1309 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3450 times:

I agree: Dmitry, what u've written seems very stupid to me. It's nonsense !!!!!

User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3446 times:

Great news!

That added center fuel tank to make the pond crossing and the vertical stabilizer issue does not add to the confidence of the aircraft at this time.

They will still be flying to the Caribbean and South America, at least until they have fully realized their ROI (return on investment.)

This is a start. Good news.

User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5062 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 days ago) and read 3429 times:


Gathering by your statement you'll be one happy person the day an airline grounds their 737s (rudder problem) and / or 747s (center fuel tank). BTW, not sure, but I think the 767-300ER and 777-200ER also have such a center fuel tank. Following your logic, should we ground them as well?

My point? There's no serious reason to be grounding these things, and the decision had been taken more than a year ago, as was pointed out. No proof has been found of any problem with the A300 stabilizer, and until that has happened, keep 'em flying. I mean, no-one grounded their 737s after the rudder issue came up, or their 747s after the center fuel tank problems, so why should this be any different?

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 days ago) and read 3388 times:

let's not mention the MD11's. They are unstable on landing apparantly, and then there was the Swissair disaster. Or the MD-80's with their problems too (aka Alaska Airlines). And going back in history, the American manufacturers have a much worse record for structure failure, as with the DC-10's and their cargo doors, and the Boeing 737 over Hawaii, and even the United 747 also over Hawaii.

What's my point? Let's be realistic. Any human made machine is only as good as the humans themselves, and we all know, believe it or not, humans aren't perfect! Not the Americans, the Europeans, or anybody else. The A300, as well as any of the American aircraft mentioned above have served humans extremely well, if not always perfectly. Faults are to be expected, especially with something complex such as building a passenger airplane flying at 500 mph at high altitudes.

Also, how do we know that the accident was not totally the fault of something American Airlines did? It is possible that something AA did with regards to maintenance was done wrong. Remember the DC-10 in Chicago??? That was purely a maintenance problem.

So let's not ground the A300's because some whiny saps think they should be grouned. Let's learn from what happened, and see if it does not happen again, to an A300, or the 777, or any other aircraft!

"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 days ago) and read 3388 times:

Scorpio, haven't you figured that one yet??

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33376 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (13 years 2 days ago) and read 3367 times:

This is pretty sad the way CNN compiled the story. AA announced all A300s will be put into running Latin American and Caribbean flights out of MIA and JFK more than six months ago. Anyone know what the 3-class A300s are doing right now? Will they still fly 3-class to Latin America awaiting conversion? Will the PTVs in coach remain even when the business class is removed? Or will they keep 3-class versions and use them to Latin America (some places like Caracas could use the business class)?

User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (13 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Winey sap here...

Scorpio and Capt. Gomes,

Personally I just do not like the A300 aircraft, I flew them all the time with EA, ATL west coast US, and AA, MIA SJU, JFK SJU. They just are not a "personal" favorite and I would choose (no one else) to avoid an A300 at length.

In my opinion it is time to retire the ol' gal (A300.) RIP.

Pilots love the aircraft. The problem with the center fuel tanks on the 747 (and 737-200) were identified and corrected. There has never been a cause for concern on the A300 center fuel cells. I guess what I do not care for is the after market augmentation of anything (out side of the factory. FAA sanctioned or not.)

As far as the A300 vertical stabilizer they (FAA) have not identified the cause for the tail to separate from the aircraft. AA pilots have expressed a concern for the safety of the aircraft publicly. (I do not condone that public action either...another topic.)

The 737 300 and MD 80 tail plane issues were identified and corrective action taken. I am unaware of any corrective action taken with the A300 vert. stabilizer? Or even if the problem has been identified, if there is an issue?

The DC 10 fleet was grounded at all US carriers, until a solution was provided for the engine pylon bolts, and forward flap retraction mechanism.

Once the appropriate solution is identified and corrective action is FAA published, then the A300 should be endeared by everyone. I do admit they are fuel efficient, and have an operation reliability of 99% which is great for an airliner.

Airliners are built for 500 mph speed and high altitudes by humans, computer modeling, wind tunel tests. They are built to excessive "G" force specifications. Not only the tail separated from the aircraft, the engines did too? Which is another issue, 'g' forces? Why? CAT, vortex from the JL 744 ahead? Pilot or maintenance error? Too many ???'s remain.

In the end I still would choose to fly on different equipment if given a choice.

Not up to me, just an informed opinion.

Safe travels, Bf

User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 3106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (13 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3340 times:
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What a load of rubbish.

Typical US protectionist jargonistic reporting and scaremongering.

The removal of the A300s off the Atlantic was well publicised by AA themselves, certainly as far back as February LAST YEAR.

I hope someone from Airbus saw the report and serve a lawsuit on the creaters of it.


So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineMagyar From Hungary, joined Feb 2000, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

Boeingfan, I suppose the root of your problem
with the A300 is that her name starts with an
A and not B as your username would suggest
anyway. That is OK though, you do not have
to really rationalize your opinion and preferences.
I noticed, for example, that the preference between
A320 and B737 is strongly correlates with
national origin and previously expressed preference
of manufacturer (I mean on this list not in the
general public). It is not surprising but still


User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (13 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3296 times:


I don't remember any B747 or B737 grounded before corrective actions were taken.

Like BlueShamu330's, I think it's another fear campaign against Airbus coming from US.

Shame on CNN (the bigest propagandist in the world)

«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (13 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

Wonder how much money AA would loose by ridding themselves of the A300 now. If they advertised that they were leaving maybe customer confidence would result in more ticket sales.

I predict that northwest will not be very happy with the A330 just as US is realizing the mistake of not ordering more 767.

I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (13 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3262 times:

Magyar, Gaut and Blueshamu330's,

You are right I guess it is national origin that is why one aircraft is preferred over the other? Hmmm?

Why so defensive? I prefer an A321,320,319 or 318 to the next generation 737. I wish boeing had gone to a shortened fuselage 757 to compete vs. the old 737.

This post was about the A300 ... no other aircraft. It is time for them to "sunset, in my opinion, no one elses." I do not represent the airlines nor the USA in an opinion.

Airbus actually designs, builds and delivers a very competitive product. At the time 70's-80's the A300 was far a more efficient and reliable aircraft then the DC 10 and L1011 (hanger princess), it was designed to compete with them.

Believe me a long haul on the 767-300 is no picnic in coach. That "tube" gets narrower with every passing hour until you reminice of an MD80. What were they thinking at Boeing? And now to strech it to a 400 series, it has become an over streched MD80.

I do like Boeing aircraft. Their history in aviation, the 707, 727, 747, 777.

I do not think they should ground the aircraft, just maybe think about replacement equipment? If that is the A330, so be it. It is the bottom line that determines aircraft selection by an airline. Efficiency, duty and terms.

USA carriers, NW, HP, AA, US and UA are happy with their Airbus fleets and terms.

My comment was strictly an opinion that is not shared. So be it.

Safe travels, Bf

User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5062 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (13 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3243 times:


I predict that northwest will not be very happy with the A330 just as US is realizing the mistake of not ordering more 767

What on earth are you talking about?

User currently onlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33376 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (13 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Rlwynn, they would loose a lot, because the A300 has a huge cargo hold and can carrier a lot of people, more than thier 777-200 Atlantics. It is one of American Airline's most profitable (probably 2nd after the 777-200 Atlantic) aircrafts. It is able to operate high-density short and medium-haul routes with strong passenger and cargo design at a profit that many other aircraft could not make, such as JFK-SJU, MIA-POP, and MIA-GYE.

25 Magyar : Boeingfan don't take it personally, I did not want to bash on you. I just wanted to point out that attitudes toward airliners strongly correlates with
26 Mac100 : I flew on AA's A300s several times and they were very comfortable planes. Certainly my best experience on any Airbus widebody! AA announced their reti
27 FDXmech : Why would AA start a fear campaign against its own product? AA didn't acquire the A300-600 because they didn't like them. Just to play devils advocate
28 Racko : You can't compare the concorde with any other airliner, it's something very special.
29 Staffan : FDXmech, it wasn't AA that made up the story, it was CNN, there is another thread about that. Racko, why can't you compare the Concorde with any other
30 Likesplanes : If AA is indeed going to use some of their A300's on Carribbean routes, they will most likely turn them into sardine cans. A lot of airlines that fly
31 Eugdog : Well I for one will be delighted with the AA decision to replace the A300-600 with the B777. The B777 has the nicest interiors of any aircraft. I have
32 Meechy36 : AA already flies the A300 extensively throughout the Caribbean. It is configured for 16F/235Y. The A300 has been used in the Caribbean since we reciev
33 Hustler : Wow it's funny you mention that about the A300 and turbulance. I feel the same exact way. For some reason when I fly to SDQ on the A300 it ALWAYS is a
34 Co/ba : It is well known that AA was planning to remove these aircraft from transatlantic service a long time ago. However, will it not be percieved as an adm
35 Thumper : Simple solution on this site! Europeans fly Airbus,Americans fly Boeing! Everbodys happy,no more arguments!
36 Staffan : Thumper, unlike some others on this site, I'm happy to fly on both!
37 RayChuang : Somebody should whap CNN for getting the story WRONG. After all, AA had announced a long time ago that they were going to phase out their AB6 fleet fr
38 TEDSKI : I wonder if the crash of AA Flt 587 was caused by installing defective A300 aircraft parts that were discovered in a hanger in Italy.
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