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American's JFK Expansion To Fail  
User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 12
Posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

American Airlines is once again bragging about a bevy of new routes out of JFK, touting its new terminal, which won't be up and running until 2006. American is adding NRT, ONT, and OAK among the longhauls it will offer from JFK. Sadly, none of these routes are likely to make it.

The Japanese economy is weak and competition from NYC is broad based, with JAL, ANA, UA, NW, and CO all operating flights in this market. Delta couldn't succeed with the MD11 service it operated from April to Sept. and that route isn't coming back.

ONT and OAK are served from JFK by JetBlue and my guess is that JetBlue will undercut American to the point where AA won't make a profit.

American has often started, then dropped longhauls out of JFK to places like Frankfurt (twice), Lyon, Brussels, Orange County, Seattle, and Manchester, UK.


75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3377 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4415 times:

How can you be so sure about all your dynamic and dogmatic statements?

User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

Because Continetalites think that Bethune hung the moon! JK

Honestly, I think American has become pretty strategic in the past few years. I think it will survive.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3810 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

i do have to admit aa is advertising its expansion too much. as said before it wont be done for at least 3 or so years, so why are they expanding now. and about how they moved the completion date up. i think that is just publicity. chances are with the project in such an early stage that their will be something that comes along to push it back, although probably not all the way back to the original date the completion date will probably be a lot less than 6 months before the original.

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34580 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

As a huge AA fan, I have to agree. I've heard that JFK-NRT is just an experienment. They have seven precious, hard to get slots at NRT that they don't want to get rid of, and will be trying JFK-NRT out. If it doesn't work, say hello to MIA-NRT or BOS-NRT. JFK-OAK/ONT is just an attempt to compete with jetBlue, thing is, I don't think it will work. What they should do is concentrate more on hub expansion. MIA is getting four new routes (so far) this year - MDE, VLN, SDI, and PUJ - which is nice, but how about MIA-SAN? MIA-SAT? MIA-BHM? MIA-AUS? I really hate how they brag about all this JFK expansion and for some reason ignore not only MIA (which is now 189 daily mainline flights; one more than 9/10/01), but also ORD. At least domesticly. Just my little grudge. I still love AA, though.

User currently offlineBlink182 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 5499 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

I think AA is probably doing consumers a favor by joining jetblue across the continent. This means lower fares. Do I think AA is going have 100% load factors on these routes? No, but I think they might be able to manage.

As for JFK-NRT. If they codeshare with JAL, I think they will definately make it. I still think though that they should have started BOS-NRT where they would be the only airline flying that route.

I'll agree with MAH4546 as far as what AA needs to do in terms of expanding out of their hubs, but I don't think MIA-SAT would do well.


Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34580 posts, RR: 70
Reply 6, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

I disagree. A daily MIA-SAT would do fine. Both are big Latin gateways with strong connections. I'll be pretty upset if AA were to start BOS-NRT before MIA-NRT. I know BOS has a bigger O&D market, but Miami the connections MIA offers far make up for it. Though I think both of those flights are not far off. Give AA 2-3 years. As for JFK expansion, there is some bad news. JFK-CLE and JFK-SYR are goners this April.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 17577 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4267 times:

AA's smoking something if they think flying two daily 757s from JFK to Ontario and Oakland (especially with that more room in coach) will be profitable.

Jeez why not something that made a little more sense for those 757s like JFK-PHX, LAS, MCO, or something along those lines. Do they even serve Ontario or Oakland from ORD?..

If they're serious about JFK and do want to really give OAK a shot why not base 737-800s there, the 757s are too big for OAK and ONT.

And how can anyone take AA serious at JFK when they don't even serve ORD and only have one flight to DFW. Four 757 flights to DFW or ORD from JFK makes much sense then waisting them to compete against Jet Blue.

Didn't Crandall say "don't over fly your hubs"?.. With no service from JFK to ORD and from ORD to OAK what's AA trying to accomplish other than to attack Jet Blue.

AA better get it's bad management under control or they're heading to a UAL like performance for the next few years.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBoeing in Pdx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4273 times:

they should start JFK-PDX. no competition and it is very profitible.

User currently offlineJonPaulGeoRngo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

MIA-SAT...thanks for thinking about me Mah4546!! I've long advocated this routing...heck, just run SAT-IAH-MIA if they are worried about viability.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 17577 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

CO flies EWR-PDX.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLadevale From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

Someone is getting scared and I think it is all of those Continental fans who sense the threat that an AA JFK hub poses to Continental's Newark Hub.

This is for sure, AA's facilities at JFK will be superior to anything Continental has at EWR. With expanded facilities, AA will be able to reinforce its dominance on transcon routes against UA and JetBlue. Continental hardly runs any transcons to the westcoast out of Newark. OK, one or two flights, but nothing on par with AA's capacity or frequency in all of the transcon markets. Good thing that it doesn't. It's product simply would not stand up against AA's. AA operates widebodies offering a premium transcon product. And in the LAX-JFK market, AA's facilities will be unmatched. They are in the later stages of renovating and expanding their LAX terminal with an Admirals Club 10 times the size of Continental's dark and dank check-in counters at LAX. Hard to draw premium travellers in this market when you simply cannot come up with the goods.

Once the new JFK terminal comes on line, look for AA to increase the number of connections that can be made through JFK. You can bet on this. AA has already studied Continental's network at Newark. And, the plan at the beginning will be to cherry-pick Continental's most high-yielding routes with the addition of both Eagle and mainline flights. It is true JFK will never become for AA what EWR is for Continental, but it doesn't need to be. AA already has ORD. Still, AA is finally going to put the screws to Continental in some of its connection markets. You can bet on it.

In the meantime, AA is experimenting to an extent. But, let's not forget that unlike Continental it has the means (i.e., the "peak-time" slots at JFK from the TWA acquisition), the partnerships with foreign carriers (i.e., JAL) and the financial wherewithal (i.e., 7 billion dollars in unencumbered planes and 3 Billion dollars in cash) to try out some new things. It is quite likely that AA and JAL will codeshare on the new service to Tokyo. That makes AA a serious player from day one.

Given all these possibilities, is it any surprise that the Continental fans on this board want to dismiss AA's operational objectives? Not at all... I'd be scared too, especially if my chief competitor in the New York market had more assets, cash, and room with which to expand in that market than I did.

User currently offlineFleet service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 623 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

A corporate press release announcing new service from JFK is bragging?

Do you expect them to just load it into Sabre with no hype and just let "word of mouth" sell the seats?

As for talking up the new terminal goes, thats good PR.
Keeping New Yorkers working,showing AA's commitment to the New York market,that sort of thing.

Not to mention the money had been allocated and ground broken.

New York figures prominently in AA's long range plans,so of course anything regarding New York is going to publicized.

Yes, FRA was dropped twice.AA does drop markets that don't live up to expectations.If OAK and ONT don't perform,they'll go away.NRT will probably stay,cargo revenue alone will probably keep that afloat.Not to mention the value of the NRT slots is such that they will not be allowed to go unused.

I see the progress on that terminal everyday,they may well get it done 6 months early.It is really moving right along.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion,after all it's just that,an opinion.

Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 17577 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

That's if AA makes it to 2006, the bigger they are the harder they fall. Just look at UAL, $2 Billion loss last year (ouch).

It's not just CAL fans, on the front page of yesterday's Wall Street Journal there's a great article about CO and Gordon Bethune, basically it's how CO (unlike AA) has not cut in flight services or closed clubrooms and that it's paying off big for the airline as customers avoid the others to specifically fly CAL for it's "Superior service".

The WSJ site is a subscriber site so I'll quote you some of my favorite lines,

"Howard Z. Brooks, travel manager at Sony music Entertainment Inc., says Continental is picking up more of his business. Leslie Leventman, head of travel for MTV Networks , a unit of Viacom Inc., says workers have suprised her when they come back from trips with praise for Continental's food. " It's a big deal they're still providing food," she says"

The article also mentions EWR's new Airtrain link to Manhattan bound NJ Transit and Amtrak trains, here's a quote.

"The train has convinced Martin Wragg, sales director for MGM Home Entertainment, a unit of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc., to use Newark for all his trips, whether bound for London, Los Angeles or St.Louis. New York's La Guardia Airport is "shambolic," the native of Scotland says, adding, " I avoid Kennedy[Airport] like the plague" because of its distance from Manhattan and traffic.

"Monica McKenzie also switched her buisness to Continental at Newark because of the train. She checks in at the monorail station and rides to the terminal knowing she won't have to deal with airport check-in lines." It's smart. It's clean. It's fast. It's like a little ride at Disney." says Ms. McKenzie, a model with Wilhelmina Models in Manhattan."

" Over the past five years, Continental's share of the New York market has grown to 20.3% from 17.6%, while American's has grown far more slowly, to 17.7% from 16.8%. Delta's has slipped to 12.5% from 13%.

"Between New York and Los Angeles, a huge market for airlines, Newark had 40% of the passengers in November, compared with 35% in November 2000. That gain came at the expense of Kennedy, which saw its market share fall to 48% from 54%".

And this is my favorite quote from the article, it's from no other than Donald Carty.

"Stung by traffic losses and Mr. Bethune's bravado, American's CEO, Donald Carty, also has launched am initiative to improve American's on-time performance-a longtime Continental strength, which it has maintained in recent months. Airlines that run on time, Mr. Carty said in a recent message to employees, "are considered superior airlines."

Get a copy of this article from Monday's WSJ, great reading.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 17577 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

And by the way Ladevale CO has way more flights to the West coast from NY than AA does, and as for that superior service stuff read my previous post.

Do your homework, and read the Wall Street Journal.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

AA knows what they are doing. First the JFK NRT is called "slot" retention and preservation at NRT. They have value and need to keep them.

The new transcon are to give a "gentlemens" competition to JetBlue. Preserving territory.

AA has strength and marketing prowes. The JFK terminal expansion will be phased in through 2006. AA is marketing their commitment to the NY market. They need some positive PR there.

Smart airline. MRTC! AAdvantage will win'em every time.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 17577 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

Slot retention, did somebody forget to tell DL?..

The slot retention is a bunch of BS since Japan airlines is in One World and a partner of AA, AA could have just givin the slots for JA to hold until things picked up. DL probably gave their slots to Korean.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 8122 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

You know, AA has some sort of plan with all this. I certainly hope (actually know for a fact) that the management at AA is a lot smarter about route planning and running an airline than people on this forum. They have people, the technology, and the database to find where people are flying, predict yields, and best utilize their aircraft. This isn't some half-cocked idea by AA, they have an agenda behind this. If its to poach off JetBlue or CO, fine, let it be. Competition is part of the business world.

As mentioned before, AA has those slots at NRT they don't want to give up along with many extra 777's that aren't making money by being under utilized.

User currently offlineFleet service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 623 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4169 times:

"That's if AA makes it to 2006, the bigger they are the harder they fall."

AA will make it to 2006.I know that pains you to no end, but we will survive.

There are still several billion dollars of unencumbered aircraft assets that could be utilized, as well as the Gov't loans, should things get to that point.

Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

All of these routes' longevity are going to be interesting to watch indeed  Smile

I wonder what their marketing and fares are going to be, for the Domestic transcons going up against Jetblue.

As for the new T8/T9 mega-replacement.. hey just let 'em work on the thing. Announcements about it at this point I figure are pretty much just attempts to generate a bit of a buzz to keep the interest stoked during the long construction phase. Not much intrinsic connection to what routes they announce and fly now.

(and of course I wish 'em all the best on their NRT flights, yeah move it if they have to to some other U.S. destination but by all means hang on to the slot)

User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

>>I think AA is probably doing consumers a favor by joining jetblue across the continent. This means lower fares. Do I think AA is going have 100% load factors on these routes? No, but I think they might be able to manage.<<

Right... did you happen to check some of those fares in monopoly markets by the sweet American? To fly MIA-DFW non-stop with a 1 day advance and no Sat. night stay, the fare is about $1600, then there are $130 in taxes and fees. Why are there over $100 for those? Is it a monopoly surcharge?

User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4071 times:

I am constantly amazed that some of the lesser informed forum members equate a single year or two of losses with 'instant bankcruptcy.' Although most the majors have had astronomical losses, they do have cash and liquid assets to see them through this.

Pan Am lasted ten years before Chapter 11 without really making any money at all (although they had to downsize considerably).

Sure, they're have been profitable quarters, but TWA didn't make any yearly profits from operations in over 15 years.

I think AA will weather this just fine.

User currently offlineCV640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

AA isn't in nearly as bad of a situation as some here believe. They have some wheer around 2-3 billion in cash. They also have numerous assets that they own, would be easy to borrow off of. Plus in an emergency they do own a large number of their aircraft, selling them and leasing them back would work, as a last resort of course. Add to that the fact they they have fantastic lease terms on their A300s, the MD80s they are leasing, and they 767-300s that they are leasing. They can turn these aircraft in on 1 months notice and only pay an additionla 1 months penalty. AA also has incredibally sharp management team.

Plus as Greg mentioned, it takes years for a large company to go under, Eron is definitely not usual. Remember TWA, Eastern, and PanAm help out for year sin much worse shape. Also there are government loans out there as a last resort, although sounds like the terms, in amount of control the government would have, are too high for most carriers to go for.

User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2707 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 3991 times:

Ladevale, Ladevale, Ladevale.

Your extreme hatred of CO is once again apparent.

Let me correct several of your misguided points, then I'll add a personal opinion.

First, as a person residing in San Diego, in all due respect, you are not in a position to comment about NYC airports, unless you transverse them often. I live in the catchment area of all three major airports, and have flown through all of them numerous times, in fact, 2-3 times a month can be considered normal for me.

Next, your comment about CO transcons is wrong, wrong, and wrong. I've got the electronic timetable on the computer, so I'll do a little digging for you.

CO runs EWR-LAX/SFO/SAN/OAK/SNA/SJC/PDX/SEA. Nobody in the New York area can give you choices like that out of one airport on one airline. And Ladevale, there is a huge difference between "one or two flights" and 21 flights. In the summer, that number increases to 27 with additional frequencies to San Francisco, Santa Ana, Los Angeles, Seattle, and a nonstop to Anchorage. As much as you'd hate to admit it, they ARE the transcontinental leader in New York.

They may not run widebodies, but they do feature a premium product worlds better than anything AA could wish for (flown both many many times) in BusinessFirst on select 757s. The service on board is impeccable. Even though only several flights are flown with the Internationally-configured 757s, the service on the 737s and domestic 757s is identical in all aspects but the seat. MRTC is great, but the service on CO is decidedly more personal, and the entertainment options are equal.

Concourse C-3 at Newark is one of the finest facilities of its kind anywhere. AA can't even come close with their operations out of Terminal A, generally accepted as the least favorable terminal at EWR (although BAA is taking big steps to bring it on par with Terminal C). The rest of Terminal C is airy and efficient, with multitudes of shops and eateries lining the hallways. AA's A-3 is almost utilitarian, but is certainly headed in the right direction.

Gordon said it before, and it is true. Continental owns New York. Other carriers can come in and fool around, but the truth remains that CO is the biggest player in the world's largest air market.

Now, for my personal opinion, I believe that in terms of delivering a quality product consistently, CO wins hands down. I do most of my flying with them for that reason, and bad flights are few and far between. I fly American often as well, and find that, while the service can at times be very good to excellent, they are much more inconsistent with their product. However, both of these airlines look great when compared with United, an airline that I now try to avoid simply because of inconsistency. When you fly as much as I do, you come appreciate an airline that can deliver a quality product time and again, and that's why CO is my first choice.

User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (14 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 3975 times:

STT757 --
For someone who said dismissively "do your homework and read the Wall Street Journal", I find it ironic that you then proceed to tell everyone AA should just give JAL their NRT slots because they are "a OneWorld partner."

Why don't you go to the OneWorld website and tell me where JAL shows up as a OneWorld member:
One World

Yes, JAL is an Aadvantage partner. However, a frequent flier alliance does not necessarily mean airlines can swap slots at a congested airport at will.

This is not meant to be an attack, but the "read the Wall Street Journal" remark kind of got to me.

25 Iluvwestjet : JAL is definitely not a oneworld member (yet... there have been 'rumors'). Even if they were a oneworld member, why would AA give slots to JAL? Just b
26 DCA-ROCguy : It seems to me that AA should just continue playing to its strengths at JFK: keep building transcons to major business-market airports; Caribbean; and
27 N79969 : I think they will be squeezed tight at JFK by JetBlue and Delta. If I'm not mistaken, Delta has quite a few trans-Atlantic flights from JFK. American
28 Airnondo : Ladevale, you should really check some flight schedules next time before making blatantly wrong statements. BTW, I've flown PDX-EWR numerous times and
29 STT757 : Travelin man : Any airline can lease slots at most slot controlled airports to other airlines, DL leases many of it's slots at LGA from the former TW
30 Greg : Another student that knows everything. Anybody surprised?
31 Post contains images Fleet service : "I would bet dollars to donuts that I know more about the NY air market then Donald Carty or any of his pompus executives 1,500 miles away in Dallas.
32 Travelin man : "Leasing slots at NRT to Japan airlines (or any other airline) for a short period of time (2 years) is most likely permisive unless you know otherwise
33 PSU.DTW.SCE : You know, its not Carty who decided to start these routes. There is a whole department with dozens of employess that decided route planning, fleet uti
34 Mah4546 : Travellin man, AA already flies SJC-NRT.
35 Post contains links Ladevale : Dear STT757 and friends, I suggest you do your own homework. First, you might begin by rereading my original post. I did not say that AA has the most
36 Mah4546 : Ladevale, excellent post! Also, don't forget, AA has transcon service out of Ft. Lauderdale as well (though that is techinically Miami) and Orlando. P
37 Travelin man : Is AA likely to make LAX an official hub with the demise of United at LAX and the paring back of service at SJC? It seems that AA may be preparing for
38 Mah4546 : I don't think AA will make LAX a hub. One of AA's strongest points as always been it's strong number of popular point-to-point routes, ranging from BO
39 Sllevin : I can only speak to the JFK-OAK service. While jetBlue will certainly compete on the route, I believe that AA is seeing the gradual demise of SFO as t
40 ContinentalEWR : Glad to see so many responses to my post. I perhaps misworded by topic. I am not sure American will fail in its efforts to build more longhauls at JFK
41 Lowfareair : This bickering is great. AA and CO are both very good airlines. I will not say that one is better than the other(although I do think one of them is),
42 Usairways85 : that is exactly what i would like to know. i have been waiting for a aa flight from lax-phl and never got one. even united has 3 flights, why cant aa
43 Iluvwestjet : AAdvantage and oneworld are two totally different things. oneworld (and Star Alliance, and SkyTeam) is much more cooperative than a frequent-flyer pro
44 SFOintern : LadeFAIL, The length of your post and gratuitous detail was applaudable, however one key point you made was downright laughable. LadeFAIL said: AA is
45 SFOintern : I'm sorry, I forgot to mention AA's: LAX-EWR: 3 LAX-MCO: 1 During the spring and summer. That bring's AA's total to 48/59... like that makes a big dif
46 Mah4546 : SFOInterim, AA does us 777s transcon. Daily MIA-LAX. Only one flight, not as much as UA, which uses them on MIA-LAX/SFO and IAD-LAX/SFO, but still, th
47 SFOintern : My bad. But you still get my point.
48 Mah4546 : Yeah, I get your point. However, AA is the world's largest, IMO, like I said, because of point to point. Look at how many of those routes on the AA li
49 Post contains images SFOintern : I don't think AA became the world's largest because of that. Sure, it is arguably AA's best strength (besides a formidable hub strategy and Latin/Cari
50 Fleet service : Another rabid cheerleader checks in,and can't make a point without name calling.
51 Iluvwestjet : It depends on how you define transcon. Yes, it looks like UA has more non-stop transcons than AA, but what about those direct flights or connecting fl
52 STT757 : More from the WSJ: The Middle Seat by Scott McCartney (Post 1/2) Opportunity Knocks for Airlines As They Redeploy Their Fleets Was there science in th
53 STT757 : Part II from WSJ article: Maybe American is trying to teach JetBlue a lesson. After all, it was JetBlue that announced plans to start flying from JFK
54 Afitch7881 : AA LAX-BDL will back in the spring.... Eric
55 SFOintern : Not according to AA's latest SKD... not even for July dude...
56 SFOintern : Iluvwestjet... depends on how you define transcon? I hardly think you can define midcon connections through whatever midcon hub (whether it be ORD, ST
57 Iluvwestjet : Trans-continental basically means across the continent, meaning that technically, a transcon is just flying from one side of the continent to the othe
58 Aa777flyer : WOW!!!! This is an active post that is fun to watch!!!
59 SFOintern : Exactly. The thing is, you don't see any of those flights. I listed every single transcontinental flight American and United make. ORF-ORD-SEA or RDU-
60 SFOintern : D'oh! More mistakes on my part. For United, add: SFO-BWI: 1 (2) LAX-BWI: 2 For a total of 3 additional transcons in the spring, and 4 additional in th
61 Lowfareair : SFOintern: when is UA adding the third PHL-SFO flight? And will it depart the same time as before, at about 8:45am?
62 Post contains images Searpqx : I've gotta go w/ Aa777flyer, this is one fun post. I normally avoid these dog fights like the plague, mostly because of the name calling (not that the
63 SFOintern : Lowfareair: UA will add this flight sometime between APR7 and the JUNX... yes, that's right... because the SFO-PHL that is being added is the redeye,
64 FlyPNS1 : I think AA's expansion at JFK will likely be successful but not at the expense of CAL. Instead, it will be at the expense of DL. DL is slowly fading o
65 PROSA : I think AA's expansion at JFK will likely be successful but not at the expense of CAL. Instead, it will be at the expense of DL. DL is slowly fading o
66 Ladevale : Oh SFO intern, I will grant you this. United has more transcons. But, when I stated that they were a dwindling second in this market I had much more o
67 Post contains images Blink182 : This is fun to watch you guys duel it out! blink
68 Mah4546 : Ladvale, good post, once again. Just one thing. I don't know what 777s they use on the IAD transcons, but the MIA transcons use newer 3-class 777s.
69 Lowfareair : >>UA remains the second-place transcon carrier in this market mainly because of the good graces of Delta
70 Mah4546 : Lowfareair, I don't know if they rather have A320s, but MIA-LAX and MIA-SFO are 777s because both continue on to Latin America. One 777 is flying SFO-
71 SFOintern : Well Ladevale, I haven't finished reading your post yet, but it looks civil so far. However, I have to immediately correct a glaring mistake you made
72 SFOintern : I won't argue that United has an incredibly flawed strategy (or lack thereof), but the way you state some things here is simply wrong: "Lacking those
73 Mah4546 : The 3rd daily UA JFK-LHR flight has been axed again.
74 Post contains images SFOintern : So it has ... but at least the 777 is back... UA 956. Now we know where the slot for the 4th daily IAD-LHR is coming from... Anyhow, JFK has never bee
75 Airnondo : Julia Roberts using a laptop while traveling?
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US Helicopters Extends JFK Service To CT posted Mon Jun 19 2006 19:22:16 by BigGSFO
NWA Flight (DTW-JFK) Returning To DTW posted Tue Apr 4 2006 06:42:51 by Dr.DTW
AA JFK Expansion? posted Wed Mar 15 2006 22:14:03 by AA767400
Helicopter LGA/JFK/EWR To Manhattan Site Up posted Fri Mar 3 2006 20:31:04 by Pmg1704
B6 JFK Flights To SJU Terminal Change posted Mon Jan 30 2006 00:55:27 by AlitaliaMD11
US Expansion To Current HP Stations posted Thu Jan 26 2006 02:36:50 by LGAtoIND