Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why No Flights Direct ORD-SYD?  
User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2792 posts, RR: 14
Posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1762 times:

Hmm... if Boeing can make a 737 fly 6000 nm, why doesn't somebody take anything bigger than a 767 (i.e., DC-10, MD-11, L-1011, 777, 747) and put a few extra gas tanks in it and start direct service from Chicago to Sydney or New York to Sydney? It would very popular, I think, given that those are two of the largest international ports in the world, and the fact that a flight which currently requires 2 planes and 21 hours would take 1 and 16. Not to mention instead of costing $1500-$2700 it could cost only about $900...

Any thoughts?


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2792 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

Hmm... since no one seems to know, maybe I'll go call Boeing and ask them. I mean after all, why not? With a 747 which can fly 7500 nm. anyway, it wouldn't take too many LD-3's worth of underfloor space for the extra petrol, would it?


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

I do'nt think enough examples would be ordered for it to be worth it! Besdies, I don't think the airlines have a problem with making you connect and pay more money, as long as you have to do it on every other airline too, there's no problem.  Smile


Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2792 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1670 times:

Ordered? No, no - I'm talking about going over to BigBadBoeing and knocking on their door and saying, "Hey. Gimme' gas tanks."


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1668 times:

If not many people fly ORD-AMS-SIN what would the percentage of fliers be for ORD-SYD?

I dont think airlines would want to put something like LAX-SYD, SFO-SYD, JFK-SYD, EWR-SYD, MIA-SYD etc etc... just because the 2 are big international airports and since perhaps it could be done by long range airliners... perhaps the load for each flight would be 50+ POB...



NO URLS in signature
User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2792 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1663 times:

I dunno'- what kind of percentages are there on long range flights like that?


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

IIRC, Boeing's 777-200LR will be able to make Chicago-Sydney nonstop, but I think from New York the aircraft would only be able to reach Port Moresby.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

QF is satisfied with it's JFK-LAX-SYD service, which resumes in a few weeks (3?) I am sure. Also, what do you mean by largest interantional ports in the world? Airports? The largest international airport in the US is MIA, and LHR is largest in the world.


a.
User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1580 times:

Well, for a start, an airline would have severe crewing issues and associated costs on a sector like ORD-SYD.

As correctly stated above, just because these are two big cities, that doesn't mean there's a market for it... and I don't think we're going to be seeing Sao Paolo-Mumbai anytime soon!

Finally, I wouldn't knock on Boeing's door. I'd knock on SAA's, buy one of their SP's, re-engine it, and stick winglets on it. Take off and let me know how far you get!


User currently offlineBoeingmd82 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Don't forget, by taking up cargo space for fuel tanks (ie. BBJ, ACJ) you loose all that valuable cargo space, which we all know, makes the airline more money than hauling people around.

BMD82


User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1523 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Qantas used to go from ORD-LAX-SYD but that was stopped. You will need to have more fuel tank space instead of cargo for longer range.


"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlineWoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1512 times:

Thats a 9,230 mile sector that would take approx. (in the best flying conditions) 18 hours, possibly more. That would require 3 crews to be onboard, unless the first crew could have their requisite rest and take over for the last couple hours.....??? At any rate, even the currently longest range aircraft available, the 747-400ER with 7325 miles in its fuel tanks couldnt do a sector that far.

My second thought would be this: with a 747-400 able to fly 7325 miles, you are looking at a signifigant additional amount of fuel to add that extra 2000 miles and 4-5 hours of flight time, likely way more than what could be carried realistically. I would bet that a 767-300ER or a 747-400 or even a 777-300 (with a range of 6000nm) would have to give up so much belly space for fuel that, A.) You wouldnt be able to carry a full load of passengers or freight. B.) You would have to have multiple crews onboard to accomodate at both ends of the trip. C.) Valuable space for cargo is unavailable for use.

I doubt that any of these a/c in question above would be within their structural MGTOW with so much fuel onboard. I think that there will have to be advances in speed, engine technology (to reduce consumption) and a really sweet contract w/flight crews to get them to do almost 20 hour sectors!

You also have to look at the ability of any currently available aircraft to be able to carry enough fresh water, dispose of that much waste via the lavatories and carry enough food for a flight lasting almost a whole day. If I was going to fly from ORD to SYD I think that I would not want to face such a flight, especially in coach! OMG, what a nightmare!


User currently offlineUps763 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1474 times:

LAX to SYD is already worse enough in coach! I couldnt imagine over 18 hours.

User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1470 times:

CcrlR,
WHEN did Qantas serve Chicago??


User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1468 times:

This would be THE ultimate flying gas tank.
Regulatory authorities probably wouldn't allow it.  Smile


User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1453 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I don't know when though but i found that out when I saw on this map of ORD that it had Qantas on it and I asked someone if Qantas served ORD and they said yeah they used to, so I don't know the year they did it but they did.


"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1442 times:

Add that to the fact that the plane would not be profitable at $900 economy fares. In fact, the fares would in all probability be higher.


M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineAlaskaMVP From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

When I flew LAX-SYD I was told by my uncle (who lived in Australia for business and flew regularly back to the states) that the LAX to SYD flight occasionally had to land in Tahiti if it had any serious headwinds. If you had a 777 with enough gas to make ORD-SYD, how much more often do you think the flight will "end up short"?

User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

QF never served ORD- the route map you're looking at is referring to a codeshare with American on the LAX-ORD sector.

Occassionally, the QF 747-400 nonstops have to set down en route if unfavourable wind conditions prevail westbound. Usually, this is done in Nadi, and I think Noumea a few times (Papeete is too far off the flightpath).

Until 1972, QF flew 707's on the following routes:
SYD-NAN-HNL-SFO-JFK-LHR (JFK-LHR usually always empty)
SYD-PPT-ACA-NAS-BDA-LHR (the "fiesta route" staff bus)


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No Props At ORD? posted Tue Sep 26 2006 08:16:38 by FlyingNanook
Why No Flights Between Luxembourg and N. America? posted Sat Sep 16 2006 21:30:23 by USADreamliner
Virgin: Why No Flights To TLV? posted Thu Jul 6 2006 17:47:34 by LY777
Why No Flights Europe To La Guardia? posted Thu Apr 20 2006 00:29:25 by Airevents
El Al: Why No Flights To Japan? posted Sat Jan 28 2006 22:46:17 by LY777
Why No Flights Between Hamburg And Berlin? posted Wed May 18 2005 03:00:52 by Dellatorre
Why No Flights To Asia From Mia? posted Sun May 12 2002 02:05:48 by Airplanetire
Why No Direct Flights From LGW/LHR/MAN To HNL? posted Wed Apr 12 2006 23:20:08 by Ba757gla
Why No Direct Flights From Hawaii To Tahiti? posted Mon Jan 12 2004 18:58:26 by Mirrodie
Why No Direct Flights Between India And Australia? posted Fri Dec 5 2003 17:49:51 by DIJKKIJK