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Qantas Dumps India, Defers A330  
User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2395 posts, RR: 24
Posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

Qantas is planning to ditch the Singapore-Mumbai service from March 31, 2002, to free up B767s for domestic operations.
Also, deliveries of A330s 5 thru 7 have been deferred.
All this is being attributed to the attacks of Sept. 11.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2395 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

Here's the related news release.
http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2002/feb02/2617


User currently offlineGardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

I guess Mumbai would be a possible destination for Australian Airlines then.


User currently offlineMEA From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1495 times:

I guess no Indians want to fly to India!

User currently offlinePropilotJW From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 589 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1495 times:

Does QANTAS have A330's?

User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Everything is picking up now so why would they cancel the A330's and what are they going to do with just four A330-200's, thats not much of a fleet.

User currently offlineBraniff place From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 1125 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1433 times:

Ahh, face it Qantas hates Airbus products  Crying  Pissed

*Early Retiremant of A300s


*Deferring of early TN A320 order


*No credit to Airbus in Qantas History Book but to all other Airliner and related companies like Rolls Royce Lockheed Douglas and Boeing etc....


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

I guess the A330 suited them better hence the order. But I thought all the while they will order the B777 over the A330, being one of the 8 airlines that Helped Boeing and being 'such a big Boeing fan' all this while.


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineTSV From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 1641 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1370 times:

Hkgspotter1

"... why would they cancel the A330's ..."

It says deferred not cancelled.

"...what are they going to do with just four A330-200's, thats not much of a fleet."

Remember QF ordered a mix of -200s and -300s in a total order of 13 (?) from memory.

Braniff place

"Early Retiremant of A300s"

Be serious these ex-TAA ex-Australian Airlines A300s had been around since the early 80s.

"Deferring of early TN A320 order"

From memory Australian Airlines cancelled this not QF and for good reason (not to have two different types in a similar pax range) when the 737-400 became available.

"No credit to Airbus in Qantas History Book but to all other Airliner and related companies like Rolls Royce Lockheed Douglas and Boeing etc...."

When was the book published as the inherited A300s were the first Airbuses in QF colours?

Regards

Rob



"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
User currently offlineBraniff place From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 1125 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1331 times:

I appreciate you criticism, the book had been published in 1997, I thought theyre would be more need for the smaller Airbuses of 1983 than the substantially older and much larger QF747s of 1971. Just my thoughts.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
-BN


User currently offlinePerthGloryFan From Australia, joined Oct 2000, 751 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

Gardermoen said:
I guess Mumbai would be a possible destination for Australian Airlines then.

As I see it Australian Airlines' current destination is Cairns, Queensland; i.e., it is to be a lower cost airline serving tourists wanting to come to Australia, (from where of course is an interesting question), it is not for traffic from Australia.

So unless there's a market for Indians wanting to holiday in Australia ..... ?

The A330 order deferral is hardly a surprise, remember they were the sweetener for the A380 order - now when will that be deferred I wonder?

PGF



User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1248 times:

Surprising.
On my last trip to India in 2001, Qantas was sending 747-300s into Bombay. With airlines pulling out of India (SAS, United, and now Qantas), Air India could get into the action, but I bet they're too lackadaisical to do so. Guess that leaves SQ as the only major player on the India-Australia route.


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1191 times:

Had Qantas not ordered the A380, they would not have ordered the A330.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1136 times:

This move surprised me, I thought that the SIN-Mumbai service was a successful one for QF and was a "low-cost" way to offer service from many Austalian cities to India via the QF Singapore hub. Have no idea about the load factor or yields, but the route just "seemed right" and I am surprised to see it go.

Concerning the A330s, the decision to defer some of these airliners makes sense as QF is currently very focused to expanding its domestic Austrlaian operations after the Ansett saga and, while thankfully recovering, international operations are still feeling the effects of 9/11. The A330s are primarily intended for longer-haul routes from Australia to Japan/Far East, and it likely that those routes are not QF's number one priority at the moment. QF will run into trouble if it expands too quickly and I respect them for a conservative approach.

I too was surprised by the QF A330 decision and always assumed that QF would go for the 777, but it is likely that Airbus made a good offer to QF for the A330 in connection with the A380 order......so QF went with the A330. Its a good airliner, fits QF's requirments and the price was right, while I usually prefer Boeing products, you cant win them all!


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1112 times:

Dutchjet,

what you say about the QF A330s seems true and logical, but I can tell you the first batch of 13 (7-200s and 6 -300s) were solely for domestic use and are to be crewed by domestic pilots. The -200s will seat around 300 and the -300s around 350. Of course there are a number of unspecified options on the 330s and eventually,one expects,they will replace the 763 fleet.
The 330 order always confused me. I believe the aircraft isn't ideal for domestic sectors, but QF will be getting lighter versions, and that the 777 was a better bet for their regional/long haul flights. With QF/AA getting more 763s(new?) for a SEP start-up,I wonder what the future of the 330 is at QF? Operating 763/330 alongside each other in the domestic fleet will be a very costly exercise and the 763s will still be around for a good 10-15 years.
If you believe the generous terms QF received for their Airbus purchase, maybe the 330s could eventually be offloaded and QF will have lost very little financially.
No mention of how long the deferral is for and interesting to note the 744ER orders have been brought forward. Airbus must be a touch worried. Whatever happens,no doubt QF still want the 380s badly and I believe the 380 purchase is in no doubt. I still wonder about the future(if any) of the 777 at QF?

Dale.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1105 times:

Hey Dale, I have no inside information, but it was my understanding that the A332 and A333 would see service in both domestic and medium haul regional service......using the A330 for domestic operations always seemed a bit odd to me (using 777s from SYD to BNE also seems strange for that matter). Wasnt the plan to use the A330s to replace the 742s, 747SPs and 762s, leaving the A332/A333 and 763 for international routes that did not require a 744 and domestic segments that required more than a 737?

If QF is committed to the A330 (its hard to say, they have yet to receive their first aircraft, but I think it is unlikely that QF would buy a new type and quickly dispose of it, especially in this market), I do not think that would also buy the 777 - why have 2 big twins in your fleet? Anything is possible, however, since QF at one time wanted the very-long-range versions of the 777 to fly SYD to DFW.


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1086 times:

Dutchjet,

again perfectly logical. I assumed the 332 would replace the 762s on a 1 to 1 basis and that the 333s would replace 747 classics. It is hard to get an overall picture without knowing the option arrangements on the newly ordered aircraft. All I know for sure is that the 738s have another 60 options to the 15 ordered. I think you can probably double the firm orders as options for the 744ER/380,that is 6 and 12 options,respectively and that their planned total commitment of A330s would be around 30-35, to completely replace the 763s in 10-15 years.
There are too many unknowns at the moment at QF and in the world airline scene to make accurate predictions. QF will be retiring the 762s(7) and 747-2/L(7) in the next 2 years. They will be acquiring 15 738s this year, and 6 744ERs by end 2003 and now it looks like only 4 332 by end 2003. They require more planes for New Zealand domestic routes (8-10?), 763s(initially 4 building to 12) for AA and the rumors are persistent that another 6 or so 717s will be joining the fleet. I am not sure on the 743 retirement plans, but these could be fast-tracked if the economic climate demanded it. They also have to decide on an RJ for their regional services.
So, it is all pretty confusing, but I have persistently said I believe QF erred in ordering the A330(not that it isn't a very good aircraft). I don't think they need a big twin for domestic services as the competition isn't as great as when they were ordered and I think they made a big mistake in not ordering the 777-200ER. It could have replaced all classic 747s and operated with great efficiency on all of QF's international services,including non-stop trans-Pacific sectors. I know it was the preferred aircraft at QF, but the bean-counters decided otherwise.

Dale.


User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1033 times:

They may still order the 772. Just look at AF, EK, CX, to name some who operate both the A330 and the 777.


It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1029 times:

The A330 is like an A380 with training wheels for QF. Too surreal? You know what I mean though. If I was introducing the biggest transport in the world (A380) I would like pilots and engineering to have some experience with the manufacturer's products before plunging in with the 555 seater. Now this IS surreal but even if QF just bought a couple of A330s and tooled around empty getting used to sidesticks and changing CRTs in the hangar and speaking to customer service reps with heavy French accents it wouldn't be a complete waste of time.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 994 times:

cedarjet,

I think you hit the nail on the head. QF wanted it's pilots to have some Airbus FBW experience before the 380s arrive. I still think the A32X family would have been better for this purpose,where there was a real need to renew the domestic narrowbody fleet and then the 777s could have been ordered for international services to replace the 747 classics. It is no state secret that fleet planning selected the 777 at QF but the Airbus deal for 380s/330s was too good to refuse, or so they thought.
I honestly don't think we will ever see the 777 in QF colours. By the time they are ready to order them, I think the Sonic Cruiser will probably be the choice.
Still, that's a lot of speculation.

Dale.


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