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DAT Goes To Africa With British Midland Airlines  
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Hey,

DAT starts flying to Africa in coöperation with British Midland Airlines.

They just announced the news.

When I have more information, I will post it as soon as I can.

Best regards,
Frederic

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1666 times:

most interesting - feed from the UK on BD...

I suppose it's WAAAY to early to start talking about Star membership, let alone competition problems with flights to UK, germany, Scandinavia etc etc


User currently offlineFlying lsd From Belgium, joined Feb 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1625 times:

Is it simple wet-lease of a332
or dry-lease
or code-sharing with flight originated from UK ( LHR or Manchester to Africa with a stop at Bru?


User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

I think that it is simple a wet-leass.
And the pilots here in Belgium are agree the it's cheeper and quicker.
Regards
Patrice


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

BMI gives the plane and pilots to DAT.

They both will sell tickets I guess.

That is the most safest for DAT.

I thougt I heard that the f/a will be from Belgium here.

Plane will be the A330-200 (I can be wrong, but isn't that the only long-haul plane they have, the A332?)

Best regards,
Frederic


User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1596 times:

They lease a bmi aircraft, operated by bmi crews. Two stupid questions:
1) Where are the ex-Sabena 332s now - why not taking these?
2) What about experienced ex-Sabena pilots and cabin crews - I'm sure they would love to fly for DAT, for even less salary than bmi staff?


User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

If the pilot's say that they understand there desision they must by a raison?
I think BMI is ready or ,to take a part of the risks or lease under there cost to loose less money after 11 SEP.
Regards.
Patrice



User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

Hey Ndebele,

Very good question: why not Sabena Airbus A332 a/c and why not SN-staff.

Well:
I must say that I also find that stupid: so many pilots and f/a without a job, and now they are acquiring BMI staff!! That makes also me angry, but I can understand that. When there are troubles on those new Africa routes, DAT will lose lots of money, and now that BMI flyes for DAT, DAT has less responsability, and when it doesn't luck, DAT won't lose money on it. You understand? Sorry for the difficult explanation, but my English is not good enought to make clear wath I want to say.

By the way: someone said me that all the A330's of Sabena left Brussels, and they are now in Bordeaux. (Ask Cricri on a.net chat).

Best regards,
Frederic


User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

Salut Frederic.
That is also what i think .
But i also think the British pilots will suffer in Africa?
You need experince there what they haven't.
But let's wish there good luck to all and to DAT.
Regards
Patrice


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1548 times:

Hey Lumumba,

That is also what I think. Sabena had an enormous reputation for it's pilots and the exploration of new (African) routes, I hope that they will fly to Africa too, all was it just on half-time (to don't loose their licences).

Best regards,
Frederic


User currently offlinePressclub From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 774 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1530 times:

Hi guys

To avoid mistakes and false rumours:

x DAT has until now not officially anounced that they will wetlease a 330 from BMi. They are stil negotiating this. A pressconference is scheduled for friday or monday next week.

x The only thing that happened today was a pressconference organised by the Belgian Cockpit Association (BeCA). The BeCA asks DAT to fly to Africa with Belgian crews only. More than 200 ex Sabena pilots are qualified to fly A 330 at this moment. So there is heavy protest from BeCA against the 'possible' BMi operation.

x At this very moment there is a demonstration going on from the BeCa at the DAT building in Melsbroek. All qualified pilots give the DAT management staff their cv

x DAT says that organising a Longhaul Africa operation on their own is too expensive (AOC costs, hire personell...). Therefore they only want to do it with wetlease. Their new boss, Mr Kuypers (ex CEO from DHL's airline EAT) has positive experience with wetleases.

x If BMi is awarded the contract, they will never sell tickets on these flights. It's miles away from their core business.

x This operation has nothing to do with Star Alliance


Regards

Pressclub (who was present at the pressconference from BeCA)


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

Thanks for Info pressclub!!

Very interesting!!!

I thought it was true because they made that announcement on VRT radio.

Thanks!!

Best regards,
Frederic


User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1508 times:

They also said that (the pilots)they understaind the desision not the use Belgium pilots for the moment.
But ask to do so as soon as possible?
Regards;
Patrice


User currently offlinePressclub From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 774 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Frederic,

You have to listen carefully to the radio. They said that the pilots say that it may be a BMi operation.Not that the airline said it.

Until now, DAT nor BMi have announced the news.

Pressclub


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1499 times:

Thanks for clearing this up!!

Frederic


User currently offlineSN-A330 From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 1129 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Thanks for the information Pressclub.

It's sad but I doubt we will see ex-Sabena pilots on these flights in the near future.

regards, SN-A330



I would rather be flying...
User currently offlinePressclub From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 774 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

Dear SN-A330

The only possibility is that BMi - if they get the contract - hires some Belgians via a pilot interim company like Capital Aviation or IAC or so.

Maybe they will consider this. Some DAT management people are thinking on this option.

About 800 Belgian pilots are unemployed now (figures from BeCA this morning).

Who found a job?

x Less than 50 were hired by the charter start-up Thomas Cook Airlines Belgium.

x A dozen are flying in Italy for Air One (Boeing 737).

x And there are some individual solutions (two were hired by SQ, one went to Air Mauritius, etc).

x About 50 hope they will be hired by the VG Airlines project. But until now nobody of them could sign a contract

Greetz

Pressclub

I keep you all informed but i also have to write for my newspaper  Smile


User currently offlineFlying lsd From Belgium, joined Feb 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1470 times:

OK but what will DAT do with 1 A332 only ?
That's not enough for 3 destinations
Maybe we will wait more information about a second wet lease.


User currently offlinePressclub From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 774 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1473 times:

Dear Flying Isd,

The planning is: starting with one aircraft and adding a second after some weeks or months depending on the commercial results and financial situation.

You can starting with one aircraft to this destinations as long as you don't offer daily frequencies. So I think they will combine Kinshasa with Entebbe or Kigali with Entebbe. Combining Kinshasa with Kigali is impossible due to the political situation.

Sabena combined also in the past African flights ('double touch'), DAT wil do the same I think.

Regards

Pressclub


User currently offlineSN-A330 From Belgium, joined Aug 2001, 1129 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

Does anyone know if this Africa operation is possible with only one a/c ?

Any info or reactions ?

Regards, SN-A330



I would rather be flying...
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

Hey SN-A330:

Check out this (the reply of pressclub):

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/736808/

Best regards,
Frederic


User currently offlineAirDD From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1388 times:


While it is sad no Belgian pilots are going to be involved in the new African operations, I can understand why DAT wants to go with BMI. DAT has no money to hire more people and lease A330's. By using BMI the financial risks are covered by BMI. DAT would only "Charter" planes & staff from BMI, if DAT cant sell enough tickets they will stop using BMI; financial impact will be smaller compared to laying off staff and breaking A/C leases in case of own African ops.


User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

If the pilots are not happy they can maybe go on STRIKE.
That's the way they kild SABENA!
Regards
patrice


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1273 times:

AirDD - what financial risks are with bmi?? They will be wet leasing the aircraft to DAT at a rate of between US$5 and 6,000 per hour and DAT will be paying all other operating expenses direct.

As these aircraft are on the UK register, anyone flying them would have to hold UK licences. Also, as Lumumba pointed out, BeCA members have proven through their work-shy attitudes that they are a serious liability. A headache bmi could do without, in other words!!  Big grin


User currently offlineAvronaut From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

I think DAT doesn't want (belgian) pilots who go on strike 4 times a year...

25 AirDD : Ceilidh : Risks for BMI are DAT deciding to stop flying to Africa & not paying BMI The cash position of DAT is already very weak and it includes a gov
26 Lj : AikrDD, haven't you learned anything over the past months? It doesn't matter if SN Brussels received the money illegaly, as long as the Belgian govern
27 Ceilidh : AirDD - all ACMI leases are payable in advance usually with up to three months worth of rent as security deposit. The problem is that the African rout
28 Bmi330 : will bmi get there 4th a330 to do these routes i hope so. the a330 looks so good in the bmi colours
29 Ceilidh : They would use the third one - returned off lease early by SAS.
30 Lhb : Following my last informations, there are still 3 possibilities for those BRU-Africa flights commercialised by SN Brussels Airlines (new DAT + name) :
31 Twaneedsnohelp : Will it wear SN Brussels colors or sticker?
32 Sabena 690 : Hey Lhb, I also hope the 3th possibility: A330 operated by SN Brussels Airlines. But like you say, the financial site of the plan... Best regards, Fre
33 Lhb : Hi Frédéric (Sabena 690), Do you have more info about the second solution (with VG), do you also have more news about own VG operations (to USA)? La
34 Sabena 690 : Hey Laurens, VG has already a schedule!! (check their website). So I think that they are going to start operations (and I hope!!). Freddy Van Gaever i
35 Lj : Sabena 690, You mean Laurent, not Laurens.
36 Sabena 690 : Sorry Lj Will try to deny that name!! Regards, Frederic
37 Pressclub : Hi Guys, SN Brussels Airlines wants to start flying to Africa before eastern,says chairman R Kuypers. It looks like VG Airlines will not get it AOC be
38 Lj : You can't get the approval of DOT before you have an AOC. Moreover, you can't start selling tickets before you have an AOC (unless you know you get on
39 SN-A330 : LJ, I have the impression that it still is the old schedule ! Regards, SN-A330
40 Ceilidh : You can't do an ACMI lease unless you have your own AOC either - so Lhb's option 2 is also out. That leaves just one practical option - the wet lease
41 Lj : According to the VG website the first A330 is scheduled to arrive on Feb 23 and the next two will arrive 2 and 4 weeks later. VG also claims that the
42 Ceilidh : VG cannot wetlease without having an AOC and OL in place; in other words only properly approved airlines can do wet leases. The best they could do wou
43 Pressclub : I know that VG Airlines is still in the race. But it will be difficult. They will not have their AOC soon and SN Brussels Airlines wants to start long
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