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KLM Missed Approach Feb. 11 At JFK  
User currently offlineMirabilis From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 74 posts, RR: 2
Posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

This past Monday, February 11th, at approximately 8:30 PM (EST), I was on KLM 641 from Amsterdam to JFK. We were inbound for RWY 31L, and, at an altitude of 100-200', the pilot declared a missed approach and went around for a second (successful) landing.

The head stewardess made an announcement that the reason for the go-around was that there was another aircraft on the active runway.

Does anyone have any further details or information on any of the above?

Also, the fact that there was (apparently) another aircraft on our active runway strikes me as a likely mistake, either on behalf of the pilot or ATC.

Anyone have any insight?

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetset From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

happens all the time.my guess the aircraft in front of you did not exit the runway quick enough on landing or a plane was taking off from the same runway did not take-off in time.also i would say that your pilot had the other plane in sight and there was no risk.

jetset


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

Jetset is right!It's the usual reason for missed approaches

User currently offlineMirabilis From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 74 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Thanks, guys, for the clarification. It was a little unsettling at the time, and it was the first time that I can recall being involved in a missed approach.



User currently offlineFly_emirates From United Arab Emirates, joined Oct 2000, 1046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2560 times:

it could happen. one time i was spotting at DCA when i was in the united states, and a US airways aborted landing, after it almost touched down, so another continental 737 entered the threshold, mean while a spirit airline MD-80 was approaching and it climbed because of the continental 737.

i hope that makes sense


User currently offlineBkkair From Thailand, joined Aug 2001, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Missed approaches are a daily ( or more than daily ) at most busy airports. Sit and watch the approaches for a couple of hours and you are bound to see one.

User currently offlineAY-MD11 From Finland, joined Feb 2001, 472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

It happens all the time in here at Helsinki airport.Last time i saw AYs dc-9 and LH 737 doing go-around.

User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

Whew, Mirabilis, we are SO glad you are alright. We all feel horrible about your terrifying, near death experience. Hopefully, you'll be able to recover soon. Perhaps you should take some time off work... You are right in blaming ATC and the pilots; obviously, both were rank amateurs. If I were you, I'd lobby to have both incompetent parties removed.


buhh bye
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Not at Schiphol they are not. Schiphol tower will not clear an aircraft to land until after the runway is clear. If needed one may be sent back into the hold before turning final but that's it.
Missed approaches here are rare, and mostly due to pilots misjudging the altitude (-11 feet, some pilots read +11) and ending up too high, or the occasional forgotten landing gear.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineA320-Addict From Belgium, joined Apr 2001, 250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Jwenting,

"The occasional forgotten landing gear"

In a modern jet-liner that is simply impossible,
same with the 20ft (-11 + 11 ft) that makes no difference at all ( except in low visibility operations )

Regards


User currently offlineLufthansa404 From Germany, joined Aug 2001, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

In Kennedy tower normaly operates like this:

Situation:
---------

- 3 inbound planes for 31L
1x AAL 767, 1x BAW 747, 1 JBL A320

The 767 just touched down and is exiting the runway

ATC would do the following AAL101 turn right into juilet, hold short of bravo - contact ground 121,75.

Then ATC would not talk to Speedbird501, cause he cleared him land even before AAL101 touched down.


NOW ATC willt talk to JBL4:

"You are following a heavy Boeing 747 on a 3,5mile final. Report traffic in sight?"
- Traffic in sight
"JBL4 runway 31L cleared to land"
- Rwy31L cleared to land JBL4

At this moment Speedbird501 touches down. But as most of the time, the british pilots are a bit slow. (This has been confirmed by JFK Tower stuff). And not moves off the runway.

Now either the tower will tell JBL4 to go around, or JBL4 will do it on his own.

Its a bit tricky with those landing clearances in advances, but its effective. You can concentrate on the next task rather than clearing them to land "manualy". I know there is a word for those clearances, but I cant remember.

I just love those guys over at http://www.jfktower.com

Check out their forum, its a nice place.

Cheers

Jan


User currently offlineTurtle From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Hey Lymanm,
What was the point of that very rude and condescending reply?? Mirabilis experienced his first missed approach and just wanted to clarify why this can happen.
Geez....


User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6235 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

When I was coming back to school this past January on board an AA A300 from SJU to MCO the pilot did a go around. This was my first go around so I was puzzled when we were almost over the threshold of the runway and the pilot all of a sudden applied ful power and off to the sky we went . The pilot on that occasion just said it was because he was cleared to land on the wrong runway . This explanation was a bit weird but what the hell he is the one flying the plane. Anyway Mirabilis a go around is a pretty norma occurence.
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlinePortcolumbus From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

Lymanm, Jesus christ, give the guy a break, don't lower the quality of these forums.

User currently offlineCap'n Dan From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Boy, lymanm, between your "Delta Totally Sucks" post last week, and now this, I don't know what's gotten a hold of you, man. You really need to get a grip. I don't know if you have some corrupting friends or anything, but, boy, chill out.  Big grin

User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

years ago (early 1980s) I was on a TWA L1011 from San Francisco to St. Louis, on my way back to Boston. We were 'over the numbers' coming into STL, and we did the same thing...the engines spooled up and we flew a VERY tight circuit around the airport and tried again. As we did so, I looked out the window to see if I could locate the proverbial 'other aircraft on the runway.' I saw nothing. But as we were ready to touch down, I noticed that one side of the plane was decidedly lower than the other. Had we touched down, the right undercarriage would have slammed hard onto the surface.

My guess? The plane wasn't positioned quite right (due to winds, poor approach, whatever), yet the explanation was predictable: another aircraft on the runway.

Chris in New Hampshire


User currently offlineSkyway1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2361 times:

There are quite a few go-arounds in MKE, I especially loved it when Midwest Express would be training new DC-9 pilots. They would do go around after go around after go around. Pretty exciting stuff seeing the 9 roar over evrey twenty minutes or so. I'm not sure if they still do that now or not.

Chris


User currently offlineNtcrawler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

I experienced a go around while riding Southwest Airlines, coming into Phoenix Skyharbor from LAX, back in 1994. Same pattern: we were right over the runway, just above decision height, when the crew applied full thrust, and did their circuit around the airport for another attempt. I first thought that it was a missed approach because we were too high to stop on the runway in time. The explanation was of course "there was another plane, taking his time getting off our runway"

Needless to say my parents freaked out and still talk about it to this day, comparing my explanation for the official one, haha

-NtCrawler


User currently offlineMirabilis From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 74 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

Lymann --

I believe my posting posed a legitimate question which was appropriately addressed to the experience of those members of this list who might have some insight into the frequency with which missed approaches occur, and the circumstances under which they occur. Nothing in my posting remotely suggests an indictment of the ATC system or of the pilots.

With the obvious exception of your post, the responses by other members of the list were very helpful, and I, of course, appreciate them.


User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

I was happy to read your reply to Lymanm's disgusting post. It is nice to know people will actually reply firmly to posters like that, I know all good members here respect that your reply.

Too often even a troll like Lymanm comes out looking good because the person he flames gets personal or something, and it turns into a jumble of blah blah blah. It is heartening to read your calculated and direct post, while still being respectful, even when you don't need to in light of his remarks.

Cheers m8, fine post, fine carry through,
BlatantEcho



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

_


buhh bye
User currently offlineSmolt From Japan, joined Nov 1999, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

Although never experienced go-around with myself
on board, I got several impressive go arounds as a witness;
CAAC B747SP (at that time) was holding short of the runway at NRT, and UA 747 were short on final and were cleared to land....but the 747SP suddenly taxied into the runway and began take off roll. The tower controller cried "STOP! STOP! STOP!" and the CAAC aborted take off and stopped in the middle of the runway. At once UA did go around. Just in my guess, CAAC mistaken landing clearance to UA for take off clearance for him, because CAAC had English translator in the cockpit for pilots who do not understand English.
Additional interesting point, the CAAC seemed to extend the flap to 30 degrees, and after UA go around, he took off without resuming flaps with the usual degree (maybe 5). I still wonder that the rest of the runway was long enough for take off and that the extended flaps should affect the VR and V2 speed.


User currently offline9Y-ISA From Trinidad and Tobago, joined May 2001, 222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

When me and another friend was spotting at Pearson Int'l in Toronto, there was a British Airways B777-200 was coming in for a landing and as soon as the main landing gears touched the ground he powered up and did a go-around. My friend had his scanner and we heard the pilot said to the control tower that we had a "wind shear warning". While he was contacting the tower you could hear all the alarms and warning chimes going of in the cockpit. I thought that was pretty cool!

User currently offlineSUDDEN From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

I was on a MD83 approaching CPH when the pilot made a go-around.
Reason: There was a car on the rwy!!! An A/C, ok, but a car!!
It happens now and then, but this was a little stupid reason I must admit. But also a little funny.  Smile

Lymann...

you have maybe missed the point of this forum/site.
It is for people that want's to learn and share what they know about aviation. It's actually true.
Well, maybe when you get older and your hormones have settled down, you will understand this.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offline'Longreach' From Australia, joined Jul 2001, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

I have heard that pilots in twin engine prop planes are meant to make a firm decision weather to go around or not by 300ft. Does any rule as such like this apply to widebodies?

These go- arounds cost the airlines huge dollars, but if the pilots deem neccasary or the air traffic control has not issued clearance then they must be done for safety sake.


25 Post contains images Jmc1975 : How do you manage to catagorize Lymanm's behavior with Jesus Christ? I'll agree that his reply was inappropriate and distasteful. But for you to react
26 Jwenting : A320, so I would like to believe. Yet I have seen an aircraft come withing 20 feet of crashing into the runway with no gear down before it flew a miss
27 LMML 14/32 : A go-around is not as uncommon as people think, like it has rightly been said here already. I have experienced quite a few as an FA. I most enjoyed th
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