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Fleet Replacement In Mexicana And AM?  
User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 4
Posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

Hi everyone,

On yesterday's Reforma newspaper in Mexico City, there was a business gossip column by Dario Celis, in which this guy said that Airbus has been flirting with both AM and MX for fleet replacement, and he went so far as to say that all of MX's fleet of 727 (around 15 as of today) is already slated to be replaced by A319 AND A318 (in addition to A320), as MX had reached an agreement with Airbus. In addition, he said that Airbus has been trying to get AM to order A319 and A320 as fleet replacement for their DC9s and MD80s.

Does anyone have real facts about this?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineAlvaro From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1919 times:

I noticed the column, I saw it in Reforma´s website today and all I can say is that Mexicana does have a very strong relationship with Airbus. I wouldn´t be surprised if MX does get the A318 in substitution for the F100 next year. I hearded that the F100s are going to Aerocaribe (to be Mexicana Express soon). And they are now, more than ever, replacing their aged 727s with A319/320 planes so I do think there´s an agreement between both companies.
Im not so sure about AeroMexico, Im pretty sure they will go for an all-Boeing fleet and skip Airbus. But remember that we live in Mexico and anything can happen, specially concerning these kinds of issues.

Here´s the Reforma link about Mexicana´s fleet renewal plan for those of you who undestand spanish:


En Mexicana cumplimos 85 años de hacerte sentir el placer de volar sin limites
User currently offlineGregg From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1891 times:

for those who don't understand Spanish, a machine (quick and dirty) translation:

In agreement with information of the airline, these airplanes arrived directly from the factory of Airbus in Hamburg (Germany) and are designed to fly with two turbines and being operated by two crew, which derives in substantial savings in fuel and flight personnel, in addition to being an equipment with more reach, an extensive cabin but and less noise which makes but comfortable.

The new airships are already operating in direct flights to Caracas, Bogota, Newark and Montreal.

Fernando Flowers, chief of a main directorate of Mexican affirmed that the program contemplates the gradual substitution of all the 727-200 by airplanes of the last generation. To the date he said: "six have been replaced and it hopes itself to complete the objectives of the program for end of year 2003".

At the end of the 2001 new airplanes Airbus A319 were gotten up both that were given to Mexican directly of the factory that has Airbus in Hamburg, with base in own specifications for the system of routes of Mexican.

Both airplanes have integrated already the fleet of the airline, with a configuration of cabin to transport in 12 passengers in Executive Class and 108 Tourist class.

From beginnings of 2001, Mexican a process of reduction of costs implemented to face the delicate situation by which it crosses the industry of the civil aviation at world-wide level, same that worsened still more as a result of the tragic events of the month of September of the last year, happened in New York and Washington.

In this process the program of substitution of the fleet of Boeing 727 has singular importance that operates Mexican by airplanes of the plus outpost technology, in order to be more efficient, to diminish costs and to elevate the yield of the flights, indicates the company.

Mexican of Aviation it is the fourth older company in the world. It transports to the greater number of passengers between EU and Mexico and is considered like the more important international airline of Latin America.

From year 2000 it comprises of greater the international alliance of airlines of the world "Star Alliance" which will celebrate his 5º Anniversary the next month of May. It offers to its passengers more than 700 destinies in the five continents, with a service of world-wide class.

http://www.reforma.com/img/pix.gif http://www.reforma.com/img/pix.gif http://www.reforma.com/img/herramienta_sc.gif

User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2806 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

Nothing new really. Mexicana has been pushing to replace its fleet as soon as possible with out having to wait for the sale of Cintra. In my opinion this is good thing. Mexicana is likely to sign with Airbus, while AeroMexico stays loyal to Boeing. The best of both worlds.

Now I wonder what AeroCalifornia, Aviacsa, and Aerolineas Internaciones intend to do given that their fleets will no longer be able to fly in Mexican skies come 2004.

 Smile LatinPlane

User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2022 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Boeing should try to sell some 717's to Aerocalifornia. The 717 is the logical replacement. The MD-80 would also be a good opinion.
Is that realistic for Aerocalifornia to buy new or newer aircraft? How's their financial situation?

User currently offlineTOMASKEMPNER From Mexico, joined May 2001, 389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

I would love to see 330-200 on Mexicana´s fleet so this way they could fly to Buenos Aires nonstop from MEX.

It was said some months ago, that they were planning to open a flight to FRA, but nothing has happened.

MX should fly to major Star Alliance gateways such as

FRA (they codeshare LH´s flights out of MEX and ORD)
but 3-5xweek MEX-FRA in 332 will be profitable.

NRT (they have an agreement with NH and JL via LAX)
2-3x week via YVR in 332 will be ok. They could codeshare with AC on both legs and also with NH from YVR to NRT.

LHR 3-5xweek (codesharing with BD on 332 leased from them, but scare Heathrow slots)

Also MX should try to improve their inflight service, they must look to AM´s, that is quite nice.

User currently offlineTOMASKEMPNER From Mexico, joined May 2001, 389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1866 times:

Why did MX chose the 757 over the 321, or maybe those 757 were from AM ?

As for AM I´m pretty sure they will become an all Boeing fleet, I will expect a major takeover from DL in the next few years and 777´s on the way. Also 717´s to replace DC9´s and 737NG/757 to replace their MD80´s.

AM needs more long-haul aircraft
They only have 4x 762 and 1 x 763 and use them on
MEX-MAD daily
MEX-CDG daily
MEX-SCL 3xweek
MEX-GRU 4xweek

User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2519 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Mexicana has three Airbus A319's by now and they should end the year with at least 10 A319's. This is part of the B727 fleet replacement. Since Mexicana's financial situation is not so good, they backup the Airbus order with the B727's, and they are going to sell them gradually to start paying the leases and down payments of the A319's. Mexicanas advantage over AM is that they own the whole B727 fleet. AeroMexico owns only 5 of its airplanes, so Mexicana can sell the B727 and replace them with leased airplanes. AeroMexico will stay with the MD8X's for a while, they are in the process of building a very large fleet of the MD, so I don't think they will get the B737NG anytime soon.

About AeroCalifornia, they did consider the B717 to replace the DC9's, in fact, they love the airplane, but they are in a very difficult financial situation and they don´t have the money to get them. They have huge liabilities that they need to start paying.


For those of you who want information of the sale of AM and MX:


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8360 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1844 times:

I think MX should look at buying the A321, probably in a version capable of operating out of MEX year-round (MEX has one of the toughest hot and high operational requirements in the world, thanks to its 7,200 feet altitude).

Personally, I would rather see MX buy and/or lease more 757-200's so they can increase capacity on routes to destinations where there are large populations of Mexican ex-patriates--like SFO and SJC. I think MX could easily fill three 752 flights per day between SFO and MEX.

User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2022 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

Perhaps Aerocalifornia can take some ex-AA 717's or some from Pembrocke, that woud be cheaper....

User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Well, I guess it is a good thing that MX is finally doing something about their 727s. They are great planes, truly a workhouse, and MX's technicians are probably some of the best in the world (they keep those things in pristine condition), but of course nothing lasts forever, no matter how well kept they are.

Someone mentioned that AM service is better than MX. You know, until recently I was a loyal Am customer, and almost never used MX. But since I have been traveling heavily lately, I have become cost concious and for some reason, I seem to always find better fares in MX, so I've started to fly them. What surprised me is tha MX service now is probably even better tham AM. Their planes look cleaner, newer (even a 727), they are always, and I mean always, on time . They sort of give a "fresher" look to their operation thatn the one of AM. I am not in any way downgrading AM, they are still an excellent airline, but I hace to say that MX is doing better. I can't wait to fly on those 319s and 318s (if they ever come).

User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5299 posts, RR: 48
Reply 11, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Hello Everyone,

After reading this post, this are my words:

Yes, Mexicana is all ready in process of retirement fleet. It was announced that the last B7272 from the company will be gone by 2003. They are operating all ready the 3 Airbus 3-1-9, and waiting for another 9, which is going to give them a total of 12 by the end of 2002.

My predictions of fleet retirement:

Aeromexico, forever Boeing...

B717 replacement for the DC9, just like Rojo said, AM is building a VERY large fleet of MDs82/83/87/88. Today they have a total of 44 aircraft. The replacement in a future could be the B737-800 just like Varig did, getting this equipment. Same for long haul routes... B777 it´s just perfect.. also their alliance parterns, (Delta, Air France and Korean) operate this acft. Also a good example is Varig again.

Mexicana, More Airbus than Boeing...

As Alvaro said, I heard that they were planning to lunch Mexicana Express, so all the Fokker 100 will go to what is now Aerocaribe. So the perfect replacement will be the A318/9 again. So they won´t change their mind... also pilots will have the licence to fly the 318/319/320/321 for other acfts like the 330/340 they just need to do some extra sim hours and their set!

Also I agree RayChuang as it mention before I think they could get more seats in those routes like SFO, ORD, MDW, LAX, from cities like BJX, ZAC, MLM, GDL, MEX, a good option will be adding more B757-200 and why not... -300 series.

Finally I can said that for lang haul routes the perfect acft could be the A340. A good example is LAN Chile.. they got A320 and A340 acft to their fleet... why not Mexicana.

Flights to FRA, are about to open... to bad they will be served on B757-200 acft. Route will be MEX-HAV-FRA.
Another possibility is adding the B767-2/3.

For Aerocalifornia,
I think they will get MD series 87s and maybe some 80s for replacement of their DC9s. B717 is too good to be true.

AIntl, Aviacsa,
They also would have to face the fleet retirement and get better aircraft before 2004.

My opinion.

Ricardo  Smile APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1949 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1804 times:


Mexicana will choose the Airbus A320 for repalce the Boeing 727-200 and for the Fokker 100 will choose the A319-100. In relation with the Boeing 757-200 maybe they will continue in the fleet but I think that its probably that Mexicana would choose the A321 ( Ihope not).

For AeroMexico, the option for replace the DC-9 is the Boeing 717-200 and for the MD-80, Aero Mexico wants a type of Boeing 737NG. But Boeing has said that they haven't the 737NG for AeroMexico in a short time.
So for now I think that AM will order the 717 for retire the DC-9 and maybe in the future AeroMexico will order some 737NG. For medium and long haul fleet Aero Mexico will order more Boeings 757s and 767s.

Best Regards,

User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2022 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1800 times:

Will AM order the 717 this year?

User currently offlineEduardo Lepe From Mexico, joined Feb 2002, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

Well about the B727 retirement, nothing to talk about it they are going out of Mexicana,
It is true Mexicana prefers Airbus, fore local and medium large flights, and Boeing for large flights, the larges flight that Mexicana do is MMMX—MMUN-SAEZ (Mexico City-Can Cun-Buenos Aires).
Ricardo is right 9 new A319 are coming up for Mexicana, and not so far F100 will be replaced and give to AeroCaribe (regional Airliner of Mexicana).

About the predications, of Aero Mexico, well he doesn’t has the necessity of having a B777 but it would be great to have some here in Mexico, but now I was reading that Aero Mexico is planning to make a route Mexico-La Habana- Paris. Also talking about the B717 or 737. for Aero Mexico well they are only words Aero Mexico hasn’t decide what to do, for replace his MD80 (all series). The DC’s probably are going to be given to Aero California.

Allegro retired one of the two blue 727’s, now he is operating 2 MD’s 83.

Some of the replacements are also old aircrafts.

Aviacsa, also is thinking to replace his DC’s 9-15 for DC9-30.

Some huge changes are coming up here in Mexico and I’m glad for it. Hope to have here some new things to take over MMMX

That is my opinion

Luis Eduardo Lepe S.
APM  Smile

Best Regards!!! Eduardo Lepe.
User currently offlineTOMASKEMPNER From Mexico, joined May 2001, 389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

Why would they want to route their nonstop daily flight to PARIS through La Havana ?

I believe that would be wrong, specially when that flight is full of business travelers that like the schedule because they arrive to Paris at 8 a.m. ready to do business. Many french companies in Mexico use it, and besides they codeshare with AF.

Maybe as a second flight, but AM lacks of the aircraft to do it. A better route will be MEX-CUN-CDG as there is no flights between CDG and CUN (LGW, FRA, AMS, MAD, have flights to CUN), but still they will loose a lot of business travelers that hate to do connections because that means wasting valuable time.

About the MEX-HAV-FRA flight that MX is going to start, they have to get long-haul equipment because the 757 cant perform the HAV-FRA leg nonstop. Maybe a 340-200/300 leased from LH, or a 762/763 from UA, 332 from BD or they will get one of those 330/340 that Sabena left after going out of business.

User currently offlineAlvaro From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

I agree with Tomas about MX´s longhaul fleet. Im almost sure they will get some widebodies this year. They desperately want to re-start flights to Europe and if they want to, they can do it. So I think they will get some planes from one of the Star members, my guess would be United.

En Mexicana cumplimos 85 años de hacerte sentir el placer de volar sin limites
User currently offlineEduardo Lepe From Mexico, joined Feb 2002, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

Yes that’s true, as I was saying probably Alitalia will give to AeroMexico a B747-200 but that are only rumors

Luis Eduardo Lepe S  Smile

Best Regards!!! Eduardo Lepe.
User currently offlineTOMASKEMPNER From Mexico, joined May 2001, 389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (14 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1739 times:

I doubt that AM will receive AZ´s old 747-200´s. Besides those jets are more than 20 years old, imagine how expensive most be to operate them.

Everyone nowadays is getting rid of high fuel consumption aircraft.

What I knew was that AM planned to rent a 747-300 for the 2000 Catholic Jubileum for MEX-FCO charters, but they´ve got the statistics and they refuse to do it.

MX should start operating widebodies, they could easily fill a 332/333 daily on the MEX-SFO route and more than 2 on the MEX-LAX/ MEX-ORD

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