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SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767  
User currently offlinePressclub From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 774 posts, RR: 5
Posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

SN Brussels Airlines is currently evaluating the offers they got for their longhaul wetlease operation Brussels-Africa.

I have understood that they don't want Boeing 767 aircraft because it's not the right type for flights between Brussels and Nairobi (Kenia). Due to the height of the African airport the capacity on board the 767 must be limited. The Airbus 330 can take a better load on this route.

Is this correct? What aircrafttype do the European companies use on the Europe-Nairobi flights??

Thanks



16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

Can someone explain to me if this is true Kenya Airways only has the B767-300ER in its fleet and KLM is also operating the B767 into NBO (next to the MD11)?

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24938 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

That cant be true.
They will use A330s probably as there are loads of available A330 pilots in Belgium atm.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Hey pressclub,

I did some search for you:

For the Nairobi flights:

1) KLM operates the MD11
2) Swissair: MD11
3) TAP operated this route via Brussels (SN) and ZRH (SR MD11) or operated this route via Brussels
4) BA operates the B744
5) AF doesn't fly to Nairobi, but they have a flight 3 times a week to Djibouti with the A310.
6) LH flies to Mombasa (operated by Condor, I don't know the exact type, probably the B752)
7) I checked Alitalia, but it seems they don't fly anymore to Nairobi
8) Citybird flew from Brussels to Mombasa, now Sobelair flies this route via Wenen and Hurghada with a B737-300 (maybe upgraded in summer to B763, because CTB flew this route with MD11 and B763 via Zurich)
9) Czech Airlines operates this route via CDG

I hope I helped you a bit,
For more info, you know my e-mail,
Best regards,
Frederic


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

Kenya Airways previously operated the Airbus A310 but got rid of them following the crash in ABJ. They now use ex KLM B767-300ERs. No problems at all operating in there!

User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

And here some the non-european use:
SAA: B737-800
Emirates: B777
Gulf Air: B767
Egypt Air A320


User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

Ceildih you're 100% INcorrect. The 5Y-KQX/Y/Z are brand new B767-300ER delivered straight from Boeing Field (okay they made a stop at LHR) . Only the 5Y-KQV and KQW are leased and NOT from KLM but from GECAS and were formely used by Spanair. Kenya used a KLM B767 (only on the AMS-NBO route) only just after the crash. However, this lease was terminated as Kenya received the VH-NOA from Ansett which was returned after the 5Y-KQX was delivered.

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2080 times:

Sorry I made a small mistake. The 5Y-KQW and 5Y-KQV haven't been use by Spanair but by Iberia, which leased the aircraft from Air Europa which leased them from GECAS.

Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2070 times:

Why'd that Kenya A310 crash again? What was the cause?

User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2069 times:

Twaneedsnohelp,

According to airdisaster.com:

"The probable cause of the accident was determined to be 'the aerodynamic stall warning which falsely indicated that the plane had stalled moments after takeoff, and the Captain's failure to properly react to a false alarm. Contributing to the accident was the plane's takeoff at night over water."

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi_bin/view_details.cgi?date=01302000&airline=Kenya+Airways


User currently offlinePressclub From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 774 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

I can only tell you what SN Brussels airlines tells us: the B 767 is not the right aicraft for this route due to the limitations for freight and range....

User currently offlineA330DAT From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 469 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

Pressclub is right. The 767 had been considered (remember the australians?) KLM uses the 767-300 on it's Amsterdam - Nairobi (Kenya) route but does not carry that much cargo than DAT would, meaning weight restrictions would be put on the aircraft because Nairobi is a "Hot and High" airport.

Jomo Kenyatta (Nairobi) airport is actually only considered as a technical stop for flights coming from Kigali (Rwanda) and Entebbe (Uganda). Kigali and Entebbe airports are in mountainous areas and supplying jetfuel to these places is very difficult and expensive. There are no oil pipelines and everything is imported with trucks, so the flights coming from Europe are non-stop but the return flights are via Nairobi. DAT (or should I say SN Brussels Airlines) also has traffic rights out of Nairobi, so that destination will also be part of the network.

 Smokin cool


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Kenya Airways has 764 on order to replace the 763.This is quite a capacity jump from the 310 they flew to LHR only a few months back(12 or so)

User currently offlineMarara From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

A330DAT

What do you mean "(remember the australians?)" ?

Thanx



I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1924 times:

A330DAT probably means the very attractive offer from Ansett to wetlease 2 B767s to SN Brussels Airlines in order to relaunch the long haul operations....
The offer was turned down although much cheaper then any of the current A330 offers on the table, so I've been told...

Why go for the A330?
Well, our friend is right in his explanation.
There are 2 aspects taken into consideration:
-) Refueling in Africa is generally much cheaper at an airport close to the sea like Kinshasa, Lagos or Nairobi then at places like Entebbe, Kigali or Bujumbura due to the extremely poor road infrastructure on this continent.
-) Apart from (some of) the 5 weekly flights to Kinshasa, all flights will combine multiple stops on the continent, yet the range of the B767 (without refueling) does not allow maximum flexibility for this kind of operations. And as said before refueling might be very expensive or even a logistical nightmare at some of the future destinations.
Therefor refueling for the East African flights will be done (as in the past) in Nairobi, but since Brussels-Kigali-Nairobi is simply out of range for any B767 at max take-off weight during the summer, the B767 is not an option.


User currently offlinePressclub From Belgium, joined Nov 2001, 774 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1917 times:

Thanks, SLZ, for this explanation.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6898 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Ceilidh,
Kenya Airways replaced their A310s due to payload/range restrictions on their A310s on long-haul to London.

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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