Saab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1621 posts, RR: 11 Posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3862 times:
My Airline (Crossair) has ordered quite a few of the Embraer 170 and 190s. Some people here think that the Dornier 728 will be a superior aircraft. Other than the oft quoted thing of the slightly wider fuesalage allowing for 3x2 seating (and subsequently 2x2 1st class) what real advantages does the Dornier offer? I ask this not to start a war but rather to find out.
I have looked at both manufacturer's web sites and cannot see that one really stands above the other.
But what I think is REALLY cool is that these planes have the potential to make many of the A vs B arguments superfluous. Here in Europe at least, very many flights are flown by Airbus or Boeings at far below their capacity. For example, I used to work for a handling company in ZRH. We did the handling for Air France. Their flights to CDG are mostly flown by 735s with capacity in their configuration for about 100 pax. It was common for this to be half full or even less. And even when it was full, it had a lot of excess fuel and baggage capacity.
To me this is excess waste. This is a plane which is fully capable of flying 3-4 hour sectors nearly fully loaded. Of course, they often fly longer segments than CDG-ZRH but to my eyes at least, using larger planes like this on relatively short routes is wasteful. I think that the new jets from these companies (Embraer and Dornier) have the potential to really put the hurt on Airbus and Boeing if the issues like scope clauses can be dealt with. Of course, there will always be a need for the larger jets but it seems as though the smaller ones are coming and not going away.
Can anybody comment?
By the way, I fly for Crossair (Soon to be Swiss) but I like the discussions here and I am something of a spotter myself, though I do not go to extremes. I am hoping to fly the Embraer when it arrives here at Crossair!! But the Embraer 145 does not interest me in the least!
TechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3814 times:
The aircraft are very similar in terms of onboard equipment; they both will share the same growth powerplants, the CF34-8 and the Epic Primus avionics suite. The roomier capacity of the Do728 is superior and passengers are demanding it now in regional aircraft. If you say you work for CrossAir, here is where you will see the major differences.
Dornier is located in Germany and the production facility is in Oberphaffenhofen, outside of Munich. The Do728 is being produced there, in a much closer proximity to Switzerland, where CrossAir is located. Where is, the ERJ-170 is being produced in São Paulo, Brazil. If for any reason you ever need parts, which will happen, you would be in a better proximate to the production facility. These are new aircraft, some parts may not be available and this sometimes forces removing the parts from production for the customer. It would benefit you more to be with Dornier in that instance.
Now the biggest factor you will discover, Customer Support. Dornier offers our customers, 24/7 technical support something Embraer does not. You can call us at the Global Support Help Desk and get detailed technical assistance with the Do728. You will find that Embraer does not offer this. We both offer Field Support but they have no help desk. So when you have questions, which you will, you will have to call Embraer and wait, wait wait. They will get back with you on Monday; we are always there for you anytime 24/7.
Of course, I am biased, I work for Fairchild/Dornier as a Technical Representative in San Antonio but I love this airplane. Let me make an additional point about why your ERJ-170 is late. First, during the production process, Embraer decided to keep development costs low. Now at the end of the production, they have ran into problems with the Fly-by-wire (FBW) and software introgration. Reason, they didn't have a development platform like Dornier constructed. It's called an "Iron Bird", we have already put 1200 hours on all the flight controls and associated systems. This allowed us to work through 64 flaws and correct them ahead of time and at least 12 of these required redesign. So we fix our bugs ahead of time, you will get the ERJ-170 with many of these bugs and then you will be expected to fix them.
I hope that was helpful, feel free to ask more questions and ill try to help you.