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LH <-> Fraport Controversy  
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1122 times:

The german Spiegel writes in it's newest issue, that LH and the operator of the main LH hub, FRAPort are going to have a controversy about the fares of the airport HAHN, Ryanair Hub, also owned by Fraport. Between 5AM and 11PM there are no landing fares for a plane in Hahn, airlines have to pay only 4€ per passanger.
LH wants fraport to increase the landing fares in hahn.

IMHO LH could be successful with this desire, as they could a strong pressure on fraport...

Here is the article in german and a google translation of it:

[Translated by google.com, i'm too lazy and tired to do it now  Big grin]

Advantage for cheap airport

Between Lufthansa head Juergen weber and the Boss of Frankfurt airport, William Bender, initiates itself a violent controversy. Zankapfel is that approximately 100 kilometers removed air haven in the Hunsrueck Oertchen cock, which belongs to the country Rhineland-Palatinate to 75 per cent Frankfurt airport (Fraport) and to 25 per cent. The Irish cheap airline Ryanair has cock to its German spider erkoren and wants from there starting from Thursday additional flights for European goals such as Bergamo, Oslo, Pescara or Bournemouth to offer. Weber and its advisors annoys that Ryanair, which nervt the market leader Lufthansa since months with impudent announcements and inputs in Brussels on the province airport must pay eleven o'clock in the evening at the main travel time between five o'clock in the morning and no starting and landing duties. To the comparison: On Frankfurt airport result for the type of machine Boeing 737, which Ryanair uses, approximately 500 euro. Lufthansa head weber suspects Bender to pamper the new competitor artificially and wants him to move to abolish the zero tariff. But the Fraport managers do not remember at all. "the fees were approved by the federal state government so and apply to each airline, which flies Bender starting from cock", resists. Also it is not correct that Ryanair does not have to pay nothing at all. The Irish per passenger actually nevertheless paid a fee of 4,35 euro. Also that is however clearly less than on the large airport Frankfurt.

--

Vorteil für Billigairport

Zwischen Lufthansa-Chef Jürgen Weber und dem Boss des Frankfurter Flughafens, Wilhelm Bender, bahnt sich ein heftiger Streit an. Zankapfel ist der rund 100 Kilometer entfernte Airport im Hunsrück-Örtchen Hahn, der zu 75 Prozent dem Frankfurter Flughafen (Fraport) und zu 25 Prozent dem Land Rheinland-Pfalz gehört.

Die irische Billigairline Ryanair hat Hahn zu ihrem deutschen Drehkreuz erkoren und will von dort ab Donnerstag zusätzliche Flüge zu europäischen Zielen wie Bergamo, Oslo, Pescara oder Bournemouth anbieten.

Weber und seine Berater ärgert, dass Ryanair, das den Marktführer Lufthansa seit Monaten mit frechen Anzeigen und Eingaben in Brüssel nervt, auf dem Provinzflughafen zur Hauptreisezeit zwischen fünf Uhr morgens und elf Uhr abends keine Start- und Landegebühren bezahlen muss. Zum Vergleich: Auf dem Frankfurter Flughafen fallen für den Maschinentyp Boeing 737, den Ryanair nutzt, rund 500 Euro an.

Lufthansa-Chef Weber verdächtigt Bender, den neuen Wettbewerber künstlich zu päppeln, und will ihn bewegen, den Nulltarif abzuschaffen. Doch die Fraport-Manager denken gar nicht daran. "Die Gebühren sind von der Landesregierung so genehmigt worden und gelten für jede Airline, die ab Hahn fliegt", wehrt sich Bender.
Auch sei nicht richtig, dass Ryanair gar nichts bezahlen müsse. Tatsächlich entrichteten die Iren pro Passagier immerhin eine Gebühr von 4,35 Euro.

Auch das ist allerdings deutlich weniger als auf dem Großflughafen Frankfurt.

(Der Spiegel, Ausgabe 07/2002)

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePatroni From Luxembourg, joined Aug 1999, 1403 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1080 times:

Well, guess LH will get a lot of trouble if they put too much pressure on FRA.

Honestly I don't understand their issue... they are not talking about a special Ryanair rate in HHN, as every other airline gets the same condition in HHN. So if LH would decide to fly ex HHN, then they would also pay nothing between 5 and 11am - and if Ryanair would fly to FRA, they would have to pay the full amount there.

That's simply called competition between two airports, what will LH do against it? I am pretty sure that the Federal cartel office is already watching the whole issue very closely...

Tom


User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1057 times:

So if LH doesn't like it they can just leave FRA... Big grin

I hear HHN has some nice, long runways. Perfect for those 744's and A340 early morning arrivals.


User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

As I said in a previous thread. Unless LH wants to get sued by Ryanair (with succes) they stop pressuring FraPort about abolishing fees at HHN.

Since when does LH thinks it can dictate what an independent company charges to another airline at another airport? Maybe we should apply the same principle at LH (for example Daimler Chrylsler will dicate how high the fares on LH are)

BTW isn't LH a little bit late by complaining now? Those airport charges at HHN were known for some years now


Regards
Laurens


User currently offlineAirblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1032 times:

Maybe in spite to ask to Fraport to increase the landing fares in Hahn, LH could ask to have huge discount in FRA at the same time Big grin



User currently offlineHoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1028 times:

BTW isn't LH a little bit late by complaining now? Those airport charges at HHN were known for some years now

That must have been before Ryanair started flying planes around with "Auf Widersehen, Lufthansa" emblazoned on the sides...  Big grin


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1028 times:

LH just cannot live with competition. Bt they must realize they cannot stop Ryanair, any court action or any threat against anyone just encourages Ryanair to attack even harder.

By the way, I'm really wondering why LH is complaining at all. According to them, HHN is far far far off FRA and therefore of no interest for anyone? Big grin

Maybe Ryanair could adopt some more slogans on their aircraft. How about: Wann sehen wir uns wieder vor Gericht, Lufthansa? (When do we meet in court again, LH?)
Or: Lufthansa klagt, Ryan fliegt (LH sues, Ryan flies!)


Fly Ryanair
Regards
Udo


User currently offlineFlyVS007 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 186 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1023 times:

LH I mean ;o) Sounds to me like they don't like the competition. Why don't all the airlines at Heathrow complain about he rates at Luton and Stansted?

User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1019 times:

It's because BA and other LHR carriers are familiar with competition. They know how to react otherwise. LH can only take competitors to court or start a short time price war to kick others out. Now they found a new way of fighting: Complaining about other airports...

Suggestion: LH has earned millions of money over the last years...why not just buy Hahn and close it afterwards?  Laugh out loud

Regards
Udo


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1006 times:

Just my personal opinion:
You don't have to fear competition, if your own product is superior.

Maybe LH should think about this.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1005 times:

Absolutely, LH only fears competition because its overall product is inferior to many other airlines...


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 992 times:

LH might be concerned that the fees it pays FRAport are used to subsidise an unprofitable airport called Hahn. They may have a point.

User currently offlineJplenny From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 977 times:

Is Frankfurt-Hahn an unprofitable airport? Does anyone have the finacials to back this statement up?

FRAport offers reduced landing fees and Hahn to entice new business and help reduce the crowding at FRA for freight and passengers services.

Now that HHN is somewhat successfull, Lufthansa wants to see the fees the same as FRA. Why? It has already been pointed out on numerous occasions that HHN is in the middle of nowhere, a good distance from FRA. If I were going to get charged the same fees, might as welltry and get slots and land at FRA since you have the benefits of a major european hub. FRA already needs a new runway with expansion at current rates. Forcing traffic from HHN to FRA will only make matters worse.

If you are doing a leasure trip from Germany to London. HHN is a great place to fly out of. Sure, it is not as close to Frankfurt as FRA, but the cheap fares makes it worth the extra effort. If you are doing business and time is money. FRA is probably a much better deal.

LH needs to figure out what thier strategy is going to be in regards to low fare airlines. I'm sorry, but as a leasure traveler, I'm going to take Ryan air to London at 80 Euro -vs- LH at over 200 Euro everytime.

Suing and bitching about it is not a business strategy.




User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 957 times:

well, which airlines could move from HHN to FRA ?? The only airline having main operations at HHN is ryanair, with more than 90% of the traffic at HHN...

User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 938 times:

It seems that a lot of people understand cross-subsidisation in one direction. If LH's response is to offer cheap fares, most readers would bitch about LH using its profits(?) to push out the little guys. Now LH is saying that you cannot use FRA fees from FRA airlines to subsidise HHN. If it is such a good idea, then let HHN support HHN. I can assure you that HHN will make very little money from freighters. It will have given away a ton of cash to support the FR operation.

I am merely pointing out that there are two sides to an argument. LH is out to preserve LH profits. FR is out to make money.


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