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Boeing Going For The 747-400XQLR...  
User currently offlineHisham From Lebanon, joined Aug 1999, 701 posts, RR: 11
Posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

...Until they change their mind next week.
What the hell are all these letters for?
Here's the link.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/pf/pf_400xback.html

Hisham.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Boeing are looking very stupid these days. Talk about a desperate measure !!!

User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Hisham Q for quit LR for long range

User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

From Boeings website:

-Superior economics -- The lowest seat-mile, trip and freighter ton-mile costs as well as more revenue-generating cargo capacity.

-Better performing airplanes -- More range, new engines, light weight, lower fuel burn, fastest speed and lower noise.

If Boeing is serious this might well be a reason for another uplift in 747 sales, some data like the lowest seat-mile-cost are obviously better than the 777s figures.


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3145 times:

HKgspotter,

I have to disagree with you here. I know that you are not the biggest Boeing fan, but I hardly think Boeing is desparate. Boeing is listening to it's customers. There evidently is a strong interest in the 744XQLR. Customers will now be able to take 744's into quiet sensitive airports where they cannot now. This will allow carriers to utilize thier 744's where and when they haven't been able to before. More markets, more opportunities, more revenue. And with even more range, all new city pairs can be achieved.

Regards


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3113 times:

London Heathrow will be the first mega-airport with far stricter noise regulations in a few years from now (exact year I don´t know, but around 2005 timeframe). 747 Classics, DC-10s, 737-200s and a lot of other aircraft will be banned then.
These regulations will also be taken up by a lot of other airports like Schiphol and Frankfurt/Main and most likely be increased again in the next decade. Then the original 744 might get some problems too. But thats 10 years from now or later.
I bet most 744s from 2004 on will be of this new quiet type. Its a clever evolution that easily can be incorporated in current fleets.


User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

Boeing Nut,

First thing I would like to explain is I LOVE aircraft, all of them, well not the shorts 330/360 !!!

What I mean is they are talking about all these versions of the 777 and 747 but they keep flopping. Look at the 772LR, EVA are the only customer and now Boeing have delayed the project, now it looks like Airbus may pick up the order and get some more A345's on the books.

The 747-400LR has 3 orders from QF and 4-5 from AF, thats is. As great as the 747 is... ITS OLD.

Hope you see my point and understand that this is not a anti Boeing thing.



User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1607 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

The real advantage here is that Boeing have been able in conjuction with RR to develop technology to signifigantly reduce noise without increasing weight.

This is something Airbus failed to do and required a larger fan on the A380, to meet LHR future standards, which added to the weight problems of the A380 you are all aware of.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3078 times:

AMS already banned new flights with the DC-10, B747 Classic and the B737-200. Moreover, if I'm correct the more noise you make te more you've to apy at AMS

User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

HKgspotter,

Gotta LOL at your Shorts 330/360 remarks as I am in total agreement with you there!!  Nuts Also, know that I won't debate your love of airliners. So, I do understand your point. True, the 777LR and 744LR haven't been barn burners. I would have to agree with you that Boeing's timing with those two weren't the best. I have to think the 744LR will die when Qantas gets thier orders delivered. However, I think airlines were just waiting for the 744XQLR to arrive. There is a place for this airplane and I think there will be orders for it.

I think we have another thing in common: we both love the "other" companies aircraft, we just question the "other" companies decision making.

But I will end this post with one light hearted disagreement. As far as the "old" statement; fine wine gets better with age, and so does the 747.  Big thumbs up

Regards



User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

Dont tell NW that !!. They might want to keep those rust bucket 742's for another ten years !.

User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

oh my god, why can't they just call it 747-500 ?? XQLR sounds stupid.

User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2947 times:


Boeing nut,

The customers wouldn't be able to fly "their 744s" to the more noise-restricted airports, they'd have to buy new ones.

And sure, (some) wines get better with age but this doesn't in general apply to more technical products like airplanes, cars, computers etc.

This new product may sell, but perhaps not hundreds of examples. After all, there's the 773, 346 and 388 that all angle into its turf from different directions.



User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

Joni,

Don't take everything so seriously. In case you missed it, the new airplane is a new variant of the 747-400. So they would be flying 744's into noise sensitive airports.

You think technical products don't get better with age. You mean to tell me the 741 is a superior aircraft to the 744? Please.......

The last point you made I agree with.


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2885 times:

I have read somewhere that Boeing claims that a lot of 747 customers are seriously interested in the new B747s hence the decision to go ahead with it. Can anyone confirm this? I believe they won't go for a larger aircraft when the B777LR can't even sell?

Maybe the B744ER is the previous B743 and the B744XQLR is the new B744 Big grin



Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineBoeingnut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2875 times:

This new 744 (and the original 744) have only one thing in common with the original 747-100, and that is the same general shape of the airframe. The original 744 and this new 744 are totally different inside and out. New engines, new flight decks, new wiring, new wing, you name it. There are very few parts that remained the same between the classic 747s and the new series of 744s. Its like saying that today's Ford Mustang is an old car. The company kept updating it, but yes, the classic looks like the new one, heck, its got 2 doors, a windshield, and four tires! Heck, Ford has been pushing the same car on us for 3 decades! Technology advances, and just because Boeing likes the general shape of the original 741 doesnt make it old!

-The other Boeingnut


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2856 times:

I really love the B747s and really hate to agree with Hkgspotty, it is old. I don't know, but I can't think of any possibility the B747 will survive but I really hope it will...  Sad Yes, it is old.

PS/ Boeing site says that this B747 will get raked wingtips like the B764 do does the B773ER/B772LR...

alvin

Long live the 747!



Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2846 times:

The picture of the 747-400XQLR looks as if the RR engines are larger than the current engine offerings. . .is this true?


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8044 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2827 times:

I think Boeing is offering this plane because of the very successful test results when they worked with Rolls-Royce on test project using two Trent 895 engines installed in a new engine nacelle design that had chevron (e.g., saw-toothed) edges on the exhaust side of the nacelle.

I think what the 747-400XQLR entails is essentially a 747-400 Longer-Range with raked wingtips, more fuel capacity and the new quiet engine nacelle. This means meeting the very strict QC2 standard set by LHR and also offering almost exactly 8,000 nautical miles range, which means JFK-HKG flights on a full pax/cargo load year-round.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (12 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2824 times:

It looks very nice.

Though who gives a damn about quietness? Current 744s can conform to LHR's tough rules so why need spend more? The LR is to be applauded though, but I suppose take away the noise reduction you just get a 744LR don't you?

Oh well, it should be interesting. CNN ASIA is saying it's targeting Asian customers. What is the range? SIN - LAX?



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (12 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Boeing is trying to keep in this industry, thats why this new 747 is porposed. Airbus is growing and Boeing sees that.
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
-Dmitry


User currently offline9Q-CLI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

This new 744 (and the original 744) have only one thing in common with the original 747-100, and that is the same general shape of the airframe. The original 744 and this new 744 are totally different inside and out. New engines, new flight decks, new wiring, new wing, you name it.

Wishful thinking, Boeingnut!  Big thumbs up

The 744X QLR keeps the same wings as the 741 (albeit with new flaps, fairings & wingtips) . As such, it’s not a radical departure from the 741 wing design like the 737 NG was.
No supercritical wings (so basically, the design is still vintage 60s ! ) nor fly by wire as with the 777. You are a dream come true for Boeing spin-doctors !  Wink/being sarcastic

Don’t get me wrong though, it could be enough of an upgrade to generate new sales but without a brand new wing, I’m afraid Boeing won’t be able to substantially increase the performance of the 747 to effectively compete with the A346/A380.

My $ 0.02 uninformed guess,

Stefan


User currently offlineRJ777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (12 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2744 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I see 764 style wingtips? The picture wasn't that good.

User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1923 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (12 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2732 times:

Regardless of whether I think this 747 will be a perfect niche aircraft or not, you have to admit, that is EASILY the best looking 747 ever. The new engines, raked wingtips, man o man, sexy styling. (I bet they worked on that too......  Big grin )

If you believe Airbus that that A380 is 100% crucial to aviation, you will also see a need for a plane smack dab in the 747s range. So why not make one for little R/D, that is more efficent, greater range, cleaner, and quieter? Just a logical progression, espcially if airlines are asking for it.

BlatantEcho



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineM27 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

9Q-CLI

I believe the QLR is to incorparate a trailing edge wedge to its wings also. It may be an old basic design, but it still flies faster than any Boeing or Airbus aircraft currently in production, and I believe that a full 747-400 still has the best seat mile cost of any currently available aircraft.

With the exception of the a340-500 and 772-200LR (if produced) it will certainly have the longest range of any other aircraft, and so, with the exception of the A380 possibly having better seat mile costs, please tell me what else it needs in terms of being modern. Please don't list fly by wire, cause with todays autopilots and flight mangement systems, fly by wire is not that big of a deal.

I see the QLR as a Boeing competitor to the A340-500 and 600 for those airlines that like 4 engines on the wings. Of course it will also compete with the 777-300ER by default. In order to compete effectively with the "modern" aircraft, tell me how a supercritical wing would do anything more than add cost. It certainly looks as good as any of the "modern" aircraft, though of no value to operation.

I do see it having a rough time in obtaining customers, not because its an old design, but because most of the airlines that would purchase this are already commited to the A340-5&6, 777-300 and A380.
Regards


25 Cwapilot : If we go with the "744 is old" logic, and apply it universally, then it follows that the A340-500/-600 are also very old. After all, it is the same fu
26 Sinlock : I know Boeings site pretty well. But I cant find the picture that you guys are refering too for the XQLR. How do I get to it from the link at the top.
27 Prebennorholm : Well, in 2004 (maybe), 15 years after the 747-400 this slight face-lift is a natural evolution. New engine subtypes - great, they are now available fr
28 Post contains links Aamd11 : For those who cant find the photo at boeing, try this link: http://www.boeingmedia.com/boeingmedia/images/one.cfm?image_id=4100&release=t AA MD11
29 Post contains links Hamlet69 : A large picture can be found here: http://www.boeing.com/news/feature/aa2002/gallery/747400xqlr.html Hamlet69
30 Da man : Why don't they just call it the B747-500? da man
31 B757300 : Right now, it is still a "concept" aircraft. Once it goes into production, it will probably get a different designation.
32 Bunga777 : What is a trailing edge wedge? Are there pictures of it? What are the advantages, function, etc?
33 9V-SVA : The range of the B747-400XQLR is around 14,775 kilometers, which means, SIN-LAX or DEN can be accomplished. I do believe Boeing will be marketing this
34 The Coachman : BTW, QF ordered 6 x B747-400LR aircraft, not 3, as stated by Hkgspotter.
35 Post contains images 9Q-CLI : Boeingnut, Sorry for my sarcastic smart-assed post! I had a bad day yesterday! I’m a nice guy otherwise. M27 IMHO, as with the 737NG, a brand new su
36 Pikachu : Why is Boeing making a bigger airplane after they claimed that the future of air travel is in smaller airplanes going faster? (ie. bad mouth the 380 a
37 Sdate747 : 2 observations: I know that NWA begins delivery on new A330's starting next year to replace their current fleet of near 25. So by the time they are do
38 Boeing nut : Sdate747, Very well said.
39 Mr.BA : I have a feeling that Boeing just developed all these just wanting to keep the great B747 alive, but I can't see any high possibility anyone would ord
40 Post contains links and images Keesje : Anyway I don´t think this Boeing plans were very Unpredictable .. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/745115/6/ keesje
41 Pinamar : I have to agree with Cwapilot ..... the A340/330 have the same basic fuselage as the A300.... first flew in October 1972, May 1969 Launch of the A300
42 RJ_Delta : Wow what a surprise from Boeing ! Well I hope that Boeing doesn't be wrong in this important decision. For me I hope that Boeing develope the Boeing 7
43 RJ_Delta : I saw a photo of the new Boeing 747-400XQLR and it has winglets like the Boeing 767-400ER no the typical winglets like the 744 and A330/340. RJ_Delta.
44 Milemaster : Perhaps DFW / SYD is now possible?
45 Joni : Sdate747, Boeing is "the market leader" in terms of deliveries this and the next few years. However, Airbus has a larger backlog and the last 2 out o
46 Na : What Boeing does is clever for the moment. It would be stupid to come up with a A380 competitor right now. And it would be stupid to leave the 744 as
47 DeanBNE : The 744 is no more an old relic than the A340NGs. Keep dreaming ... I recall Cathay maintaintence personnel stating that they were very pleased with t
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