Boeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3742 times:
I have to disagree with you here. I know that you are not the biggest Boeing fan, but I hardly think Boeing is desparate. Boeing is listening to it's customers. There evidently is a strong interest in the 744XQLR. Customers will now be able to take 744's into quiet sensitive airports where they cannot now. This will allow carriers to utilize thier 744's where and when they haven't been able to before. More markets, more opportunities, more revenue. And with even more range, all new city pairs can be achieved.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 11491 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3710 times:
London Heathrow will be the first mega-airport with far stricter noise regulations in a few years from now (exact year I don´t know, but around 2005 timeframe). 747 Classics, DC-10s, 737-200s and a lot of other aircraft will be banned then.
These regulations will also be taken up by a lot of other airports like Schiphol and Frankfurt/Main and most likely be increased again in the next decade. Then the original 744 might get some problems too. But thats 10 years from now or later.
I bet most 744s from 2004 on will be of this new quiet type. Its a clever evolution that easily can be incorporated in current fleets.
Hkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3695 times:
First thing I would like to explain is I LOVE aircraft, all of them, well not the shorts 330/360 !!!
What I mean is they are talking about all these versions of the 777 and 747 but they keep flopping. Look at the 772LR, EVA are the only customer and now Boeing have delayed the project, now it looks like Airbus may pick up the order and get some more A345's on the books.
The 747-400LR has 3 orders from QF and 4-5 from AF, thats is. As great as the 747 is... ITS OLD.
Hope you see my point and understand that this is not a anti Boeing thing.
Boeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3665 times:
Gotta LOL at your Shorts 330/360 remarks as I am in total agreement with you there!! Also, know that I won't debate your love of airliners. So, I do understand your point. True, the 777LR and 744LR haven't been barn burners. I would have to agree with you that Boeing's timing with those two weren't the best. I have to think the 744LR will die when Qantas gets thier orders delivered. However, I think airlines were just waiting for the 744XQLR to arrive. There is a place for this airplane and I think there will be orders for it.
I think we have another thing in common: we both love the "other" companies aircraft, we just question the "other" companies decision making.
But I will end this post with one light hearted disagreement. As far as the "old" statement; fine wine gets better with age, and so does the 747.
Mr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3482 times:
I have read somewhere that Boeing claims that a lot of 747 customers are seriously interested in the new B747s hence the decision to go ahead with it. Can anyone confirm this? I believe they won't go for a larger aircraft when the B777LR can't even sell?
Maybe the B744ER is the previous B743 and the B744XQLR is the new B744
Boeingnut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3472 times:
This new 744 (and the original 744) have only one thing in common with the original 747-100, and that is the same general shape of the airframe. The original 744 and this new 744 are totally different inside and out. New engines, new flight decks, new wiring, new wing, you name it. There are very few parts that remained the same between the classic 747s and the new series of 744s. Its like saying that today's Ford Mustang is an old car. The company kept updating it, but yes, the classic looks like the new one, heck, its got 2 doors, a windshield, and four tires! Heck, Ford has been pushing the same car on us for 3 decades! Technology advances, and just because Boeing likes the general shape of the original 741 doesnt make it old!
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3424 times:
I think Boeing is offering this plane because of the very successful test results when they worked with Rolls-Royce on test project using two Trent 895 engines installed in a new engine nacelle design that had chevron (e.g., saw-toothed) edges on the exhaust side of the nacelle.
I think what the 747-400XQLR entails is essentially a 747-400 Longer-Range with raked wingtips, more fuel capacity and the new quiet engine nacelle. This means meeting the very strict QC2 standard set by LHR and also offering almost exactly 8,000 nautical miles range, which means JFK-HKG flights on a full pax/cargo load year-round.
Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13754 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3421 times:
It looks very nice.
Though who gives a damn about quietness? Current 744s can conform to LHR's tough rules so why need spend more? The LR is to be applauded though, but I suppose take away the noise reduction you just get a 744LR don't you?
Oh well, it should be interesting. CNN ASIA is saying it's targeting Asian customers. What is the range? SIN - LAX?
9Q-CLI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3358 times:
This new 744 (and the original 744) have only one thing in common with the original 747-100, and that is the same general shape of the airframe. The original 744 and this new 744 are totally different inside and out. New engines, new flight decks, new wiring, new wing, you name it.
Wishful thinking, Boeingnut!
The 744X QLR keeps the same wings as the 741 (albeit with new flaps, fairings & wingtips) . As such, it’s not a radical departure from the 741 wing design like the 737 NG was.
No supercritical wings (so basically, the design is still vintage 60s ! ) nor fly by wire as with the 777. You are a dream come true for Boeing spin-doctors !
Don’t get me wrong though, it could be enough of an upgrade to generate new sales but without a brand new wing, I’m afraid Boeing won’t be able to substantially increase the performance of the 747 to effectively compete with the A346/A380.
BlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2010 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3329 times:
Regardless of whether I think this 747 will be a perfect niche aircraft or not, you have to admit, that is EASILY the best looking 747 ever. The new engines, raked wingtips, man o man, sexy styling. (I bet they worked on that too...... )
If you believe Airbus that that A380 is 100% crucial to aviation, you will also see a need for a plane smack dab in the 747s range. So why not make one for little R/D, that is more efficent, greater range, cleaner, and quieter? Just a logical progression, espcially if airlines are asking for it.
M27 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (13 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3279 times:
I believe the QLR is to incorparate a trailing edge wedge to its wings also. It may be an old basic design, but it still flies faster than any Boeing or Airbus aircraft currently in production, and I believe that a full 747-400 still has the best seat mile cost of any currently available aircraft.
With the exception of the a340-500 and 772-200LR (if produced) it will certainly have the longest range of any other aircraft, and so, with the exception of the A380 possibly having better seat mile costs, please tell me what else it needs in terms of being modern. Please don't list fly by wire, cause with todays autopilots and flight mangement systems, fly by wire is not that big of a deal.
I see the QLR as a Boeing competitor to the A340-500 and 600 for those airlines that like 4 engines on the wings. Of course it will also compete with the 777-300ER by default. In order to compete effectively with the "modern" aircraft, tell me how a supercritical wing would do anything more than add cost. It certainly looks as good as any of the "modern" aircraft, though of no value to operation.
I do see it having a rough time in obtaining customers, not because its an old design, but because most of the airlines that would purchase this are already commited to the A340-5&6, 777-300 and A380.
: If we go with the "744 is old" logic, and apply it universally, then it follows that the A340-500/-600 are also very old. After all, it is the same fu
: I know Boeings site pretty well. But I cant find the picture that you guys are refering too for the XQLR. How do I get to it from the link at the top.
: Well, in 2004 (maybe), 15 years after the 747-400 this slight face-lift is a natural evolution. New engine subtypes - great, they are now available fr
: For those who cant find the photo at boeing, try this link: http://www.boeingmedia.com/boeingmedia/images/one.cfm?image_id=4100&release=t AA MD11
: A large picture can be found here: http://www.boeing.com/news/feature/aa2002/gallery/747400xqlr.html Hamlet69
30 Da man
: Why don't they just call it the B747-500? da man
: Right now, it is still a "concept" aircraft. Once it goes into production, it will probably get a different designation.
: What is a trailing edge wedge? Are there pictures of it? What are the advantages, function, etc?
: The range of the B747-400XQLR is around 14,775 kilometers, which means, SIN-LAX or DEN can be accomplished. I do believe Boeing will be marketing this
34 The Coachman
: BTW, QF ordered 6 x B747-400LR aircraft, not 3, as stated by Hkgspotter.
: Boeingnut, Sorry for my sarcastic smart-assed post! I had a bad day yesterday! I’m a nice guy otherwise. M27 IMHO, as with the 737NG, a brand new su
: Why is Boeing making a bigger airplane after they claimed that the future of air travel is in smaller airplanes going faster? (ie. bad mouth the 380 a
: 2 observations: I know that NWA begins delivery on new A330's starting next year to replace their current fleet of near 25. So by the time they are do