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Airbus Slams New 747-400  
User currently offlineCruising From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 258 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

Airbus dismisses rival's latest aircraft
- It knows of no launch customers for B747-400XQLR

Business Times (Singapore) 02/28/02
author: Beth Jinks


(SINGAPORE) European aircraft maker Airbus says its 550-seat super-jumbo A380 is on schedule and in demand - and claims that US rival Boeing's newly-unveiled quiet, long-range 400-seat 747-400XQLR will pose little competition.



Airbus president and chief executive Noel Forgeard told a news briefing at Asian Aerospace yesterday that he is confident that Airbus will maintain steady business and deliver 300 aircraft in 2002 and probably the same in 2003.



Repeatedly highlighting that Airbus captured more than half of the world's new large commercial aircraft orders last year, Mr Forgeard said the company is already 'on equal footing with its only competitor'.



The France-based plane maker, which last year secured 375 firm orders worth US$44.7 billion, delivered 325 aircraft and boasts a backlog of 1,575, anticipates less than a challenge from Boeing in the future, taking a swipe at its new plane and broadening business interests.



'A key difference is that Airbus invests its profits back in its products, in its core business, not in flashy diversifications or buy-back of shares. We are an aircraft company and proud to be so,' Mr Forgeard said.



'What is particularly quiet with this new (Boeing) airplane is the new orders, because we are not aware of any launch customers,' he added, repeating that Airbus' A380 has 85 firm orders. The first is on track to be delivered to Singapore Airlines in the first quarter of 2006. Boeing's 747-400XQLR is scheduled to enter the market in early 2004.



Airbus said it is also at an 'advanced state of development' for two bigger and longer-range versions of the A340 - the A340-500 and A340-600 - which will allow non-stop flights between the US and South-east Asia.



Cautiously optimistic that the industry is beginning to climb out of a global slowdown aggravated by the Sept 11 terrorist incident, Mr Forgeard later told reporters that he expects a proper industry recovery to take two years.



Airbus chief commercial officer John Leahy likened the situation to the Gulf War, and forecast similar passenger return after a dramatic drop-off.



Describing Airbus' less than 20 per cent share of the Japan market as a serious concern, Mr Forgeard said the company will aggressively fight Boeing's stranglehold. 'It will not be an easy fight,' he said.



Commenting on yesterday's failure in Australia to sell embattled carrier Ansett - an airline that had signed memoranda of understanding to rejuvenate its fleet with Airbus aircraft - Mr Forgeard said he had not counted the orders as firm but hoped Ansett could be salvaged.



He added that Airbus has 'no undisclosed ghostly customers' and has reduced its sales financing exposure to less than 20 per cent, down from more than 40 per cent in four years.



60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29788 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3992 times:

Cough....press release....cough....

You don't suppose he is slightly biased do you???



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3960 times:



User currently offlineSingapore 777 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Oh my god!!! I didn't think he'd be so direct. Indeed the only thing so quiet about the new B747-400 is the orders!

User currently offlineAerLingus From China, joined Mar 2000, 2371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Don't you think it's a little unusual that he is making such a blatant attack on an aircraft? I mean, if it poses no real competition to Airbus, why would he be making such a big deal out of it.

I would, however like to know where Boeing is getting it's information as far as demand for this plane goes. How much real research with the airlines did they do before coming out with this new 744?

Finally, for the Airbus fans: remember how many orders the Concorde had within it's first year or so of production. Now remember how few orders actually panned out.



Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
User currently offlineCoAir@IAH From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

The bottom line is that Airbus is still the inferior (numbers- and in my opinion quality-wise) and they have to take cheap shots to get ahead.

I look forward to flying on the A380 someday!
I mean just look at all the US-based carriers stepping over each other to get the first plane!



User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13737 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

Maybe not to the A380, but on paper it can easily do Singapore - Los Angeles (Source: someone who posted it on airliners.net). So, it may not be a competitor according to them anyway, to the A380, but it is to their A340-500s.


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineJubilee777 From Singapore, joined May 1999, 528 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

"Dismisses" and "slam" have different intensities in meaning.

J777


User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3775 times:

Jubilee777 is right, I was expecting some sort of Statement from Airbus saying that the new 747 is a disgrace.

No guesses for the majority of replies in this thread.....


User currently offlineCruising From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

Someway, Airbus is right about the number of customers for the 747-400XQLR. According to a Boeing source, their main target customer is SIA and maybe other carriers in South East Asia, because this new 747 can make Singapore and LAX non-stop.

Boeing Board of Directors plans to give 'go' or 'no-go' in May on this project, so if Boeing doesn't get any order in near future, there is a big chace that this 747-400 will have same faith as other proposed 747's.


User currently offlineKonstantinos From Greece, joined Jun 2001, 389 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

MDC wanted to bring out the MD-12 super jumbo and Boeing could have gone with it instead of canceling it.

Boeing or even MDC would have already produced the MD-12 (or B787) by now and would not worry about their 747 and Airbus.

What can you say, shit happens.


User currently offlineMika From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 2847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

I will believe that the A380 is going to be a success when the 80-ish planes that are ordered got the airlines names on them and are in actual service. Personally i think it has a little "too good to be true" factor posing over it. Just my $0.02.

User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13157 posts, RR: 78
Reply 12, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

Just a bit of good old-fashioned knockabout, how many of you remember Boeing dissing the A320 during it's development?
Airbus inferior quality? I don't know.
But I do know that in the late 80's and again in the early 90's, BA complained about the quality of some 737/757 and 767 deliveries.
I know because I work with one of the BA staff sent to Seattle in 1991 to see what was going on, and resolve the problems.
It affected a small minority of aircraft, mostly incorrect wiring, and the problems clearly were resolved.
With no Airbus fleet of anything like comparable size at BA, I cannot comment on, or compare Airbus.
I guess it happens to all planemakers from time to time, but I've only ever worked at BA so I don't really know about the 'wider world'.
Comparing the A380 to Concorde is facile, the A380 is a conventional aircraft, just a bit bigger.
And only BA and AF ever placed FIRM Concorde orders, all the rest were options.




User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

'A key difference is that Airbus invests its profits back in its products, in its core business, not in flashy diversifications or buy-back of shares. We are an aircraft company and proud to be so,' Mr Forgeard said.

Profits? I didn't know Airbus had much experience in this field.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1603 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

Damn Boeing and their "flashy diversifications" They need to do some real, concrete diversifications!  Smile


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

Unprofessional statements like this from the PRESIDENT of a major international company makes me disgusted. True, there is competition, but you let the product do the talking. I never hear Boeing execs make childish statements like this. But that typical Airbus for ya.

I love the aircraft that Airbus produces. Particularly the newest A340's. But The "leadership", and I use that term very lightly, of Airbus makes me sick.


User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

If Airbus is planning their ad campaigns around "the US nonstop to Southeast Asia", the 380 will never be profitable.

Also, I don't suppose the words "excess capacity" are in Airbus's dictionary, cause that's where things are headed, if not already there.

Tom in NO (at MSY)



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

The captain I spoke to told me that he read on the company message board that SQ was considering a new B747-400 but he pointed out that it was not the B747-400 that Qantas/Air France has ordered but another version and that Boeing has not unveiled at that time.

alvin

PS/I think he did not slam the B744XQLR... he just dismissed the B744XQLR as 'nothing' to the A380.



Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineThumper From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

I would like to fly on a 380 someday but the largest airlines are american and I dont think there will be much of a market for the 380 in america! Most american airlines have done away with there 747's and replaced them with smaller aircraft.I dont see the 380 ever becoming a dominate aircraft like the 747's were. If they cant fill them they will end up hauling cargo and that would be a shame!

User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3286 times:

You've got a point Thumper. I don't know for the future but currently I see that passenger traffic can never fill a B744 to the max let alone the A380. Personally I would like the try the A380 too one day but I'm a bit hesitant on flying with 555 passengers in a plane for longhaul.

alvin



Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

My apologies... it should read

"it can hardly fill a B744...."



Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Thumper, I'd like to point out that the largest airlines may be American, but they aren't necessarily the most profitable. Let's see, what were the losses for most of the US majors last year...

I'd like to point out that SQ, QF and CX, while not the largest, have consistently turned over profits for years in the Asia-Pacific Region and of those, 2 have placed firm orders for the A380, and CX has long been rumoured to have been considering the aircraft.

My argument is that no airline making losses can really chance their arm with this aircraft, not because the airline is too small.



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Wow, Noel's adopting an O'leary-esque "fuck them" approach.

Egotistical idiot.

Scary that he's running Airbus.


User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

>.'What is particularly quiet with this new (Boeing) airplane is the new orders, because we are not aware of any launch customers,'<<

Why didn't anybody tell me that they hired Michael O'Leary?


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13157 posts, RR: 78
Reply 24, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

Spare us the false outrage Boeing Nut!
Selective memory?
Plenty of harmless snipes from Boeing to Airbus over the years!
Who cares?
Now if anyone said a plane was unsafe......


25 EGGD : Unprofessional statements like this from the PRESIDENT of a major international company makes me disgusted And you forget mr. Mulallys crude and ignor
26 RayChuang : The reason why SQ and QF are buying the A380-800 is the fact they have the traffic loads to fly such a big plane. In fact, in the case of SQ they have
27 Udo : What a bull...as expected. By the way, I can tell you why American airlines aren't likely to order the A380...it's because they just don't work as pro
28 RIX : Show me an airline in the US that needs A380 but "can't afford it because of big losses". Your post was titled perfectly. Regards, RIX
29 Dc10guy : Well I'm just about done with airliners.net forum... The "flag waving" thing makes me sick. Its like going to a nascar race and hearing about how Ford
30 Udo : UA or NWA could easily operate A380 sized aircraft on their Pacific network. AA sends six or seven B767 and B777 to LHR from JFK, sometimes with littl
31 PW100 : Udo, Couldn't agree more with you. Stating that the A380 won't be a success cos US carriers won't buy them is the biggest rubbish I've heard in years.
32 Post contains images RIX : US carriers are not the right examples to decide if an aircraft [A380] could be a success or not. - exactly. Because they don't need it. AA sends six
33 I LOVE EWR : I am a fan of airplanes. If I am on a CRJ, ERJ, Airbus or Boeing I am thirlled to be flying it to some destination. However, I do not think the A380 w
34 AOMlover : Aer Lingus, about Concorde, you might also forget that Concorde is a very very special plane... This topic makes me laugh. When Boeing insult Airbus,
35 Post contains images AOMlover : "The SonicCruiser will offer the same inflight amenities as the A380 but will get the passengers to thier destinations quickly. That is why it will be
36 Boeing nut : OK fellow members, I say this with absolutely no sarcastic tone. (no, really!) I personally have not heard an unprofessional statement like that made
37 RIX : Well, I don't see check-in/security a big problem for A380 since how fast it is depends not on the aircraft size but on total amount of passengers in
38 Udo : Forget it. An airline that operates 44 B747-400s (UA) or 46 B747-200/400s (NWA) must have a certain demand for larger aircraft, at least in several ye
39 Greenjet : A little side note.....the reason why there are so many 767 and 777 flights between LHR and NY is because frequency is king in order to compete in thi
40 Blink182 : Tell that to Qantas. The last time I checked, they had orders for the new 744. blink
41 Donder10 : Im sure most airlines would be as profitable as Emirates if they didnt pay landing and airport fees at their hub!
42 Post contains images NWA742 : What a childish remark from Airbus. I have to agree with Boeing Nut, I've never ever seen Boeing act this way. Looks like this guy doesn't like having
43 Jonathan L : This reads like a pretty typical press release to me. Companies are always claiming or attempting to prove (with a single-sided argument) that their p
44 Cx flyboy : I'm just surprised this thread has lasted this long!!1 - a Boeing pilot. - an Airbus fan, primarily because of all the Anti-Airbus people around.
45 Udo : UPS once found a hammer and other tools in the rudder of one brand new B767F. Sorry if you don't want to hear it, but it's a fact. And before pointing
46 KAUSpilot : I don't see what the big deal here is. Look: If there was really a strong demand for a 500-600 seat aircraft, boeing would already be designing and bu
47 Post contains images AOMlover : Udo, I TOTALLY agree with you, especially about the "anti-american" comment. Boeing never made statements against Airbus ? Some days ago, there was a
48 KAUSpilot : Why so defensive about this press release? It merely achknowledges that BOEING aircraft are designed in much the same way as airbuses, and therefore a
49 Post contains images Carmy : Udo, you have my absolute full backing on this one, in particular that part about the "Anti-American" thing that somehow seems to surface whenever the
50 Boeing nut : AOMlover, Yes, I remember that post, but there was no degrading comment towards Airbus whatsoever. As KAUSpilot stated, Boeing said that although thie
51 Post contains images Racko : udo, i agree about your anti-american part. As soon as somebody writes something against boeing or any other product made in the usa, you are an anti-
52 BOAT : I have a "gut feeling" that the 380 will become an albatross to its manufacturer Airbus. I know its been said hundreds of times, but the world changed
53 Jj : Airbus has been stating that the aircraft will have a rather strong demand. Now, up to my know;edge, the airlines that had the A 380 on order, haven'
54 Greenjet : Airbus need to sell 500 A380s to break-even on the project. People shouldn't write off the aircraft yet. People dismissed the 747 before it took to th
55 Jj : 500!!!!!!! They plan to sell more than that I guess, cause if not the program wouldn't havebeen launched. Now that will be very difficult.
56 AOMlover : Yes, only the time will tell us. After all, in 2006, the world will be very different. After September 11th the world changed ? We are in March 2002,
57 N766UA : To start, I am a Boeing fan.. and an American. You may say "well that's typical." But I can assure you that if I thought Airbus had a superior product
58 Delta-flyer : Kudos to Airbus for their achievement over the past 30 years. But they are pretty damn arrogant, wouldn't you say? Their CEO's have always had a dismi
59 Ual777contrail : with this country gearing more towards rj's i couldnt see the a380 ever making a ripple in this big pond. the u.s. doesnt need an a380, most major air
60 Jj : it doesn't surprise me that most US carriers have a majority of Boeing fleet, as it doesn't surprise me that in Europe, there are lot more airlines w
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