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B777 New York-Beijing Non-Stop Over The North Pole  
User currently offlineFunny From Greece, joined May 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 13245 times:

Did you guys hear about the China Southern Airlines Boeing 777, which operated a flight from NYC-Beijing overflying the USA, Canada, North Pole!!, Russia Far East and Mongolia, a long time ago. This was actually a test to evaluate how this new route cuts down on fuel consumption and landing fees.

Is this now an official route?


20 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (14 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 13083 times:

No airline currently serves the route nonstop.
You can go from DTW to PEK nonstop, though.

User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2682 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (14 years 3 months 16 hours ago) and read 13041 times:

I flew on the NW flight you mention - DTW-PEK over the pole, Siberia, Mongolia. The return trip was over the Bering Sea and Alaska. Really fascinating - I was watching and recording the lat-long readouts on the screen in between movies. (There were no PTV's in coach, where I sat.)

Here is the plot of the DTW-PEK flight....


"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (14 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 12961 times:

it was a delta 777

User currently offlineLeftseat86 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 12927 times:

Continental operates EWR-HKG with 777-200s, at least thats what was said in Airways magazine...  Smile

User currently offlineFunny From Greece, joined May 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (14 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 12891 times:

No, it China Soutern. Says it in airways magazine.


User currently offlineApuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3036 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (14 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 12884 times:

That must have been one amazing flight. I'd really like to fly over the North Pole (or the South Pole, whatever) someday...


Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
User currently offlineBA777 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2192 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (14 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 12865 times:

Is there a dip where the North Pole is, did you actually fly that??

BA777  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2682 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (14 years 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 12799 times:

I think it's a plotting software anomaly or else I have a stray point (labeled west instead of east maybe)? I eliminated some of the points near the pole, so now it looks better. Try this......

Basically, we just made a slight left turn near the pole.


"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
User currently offlineDfleet7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 153 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (14 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 12777 times:

just in case you didnt know,
airlines usually make that dip before reaching the north pole because it screws up the navigation devices (like compasses) to fly directly over the north pole. think about where the needle on the compass would be if you flew directly over the north pole!

User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2682 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (14 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 12753 times:

Well, I hardly think we flew by compass! It would haev been tricky heading south -- any direction you pick is south! In any event, the most northerly latitude we reached was 88 deg 54 m.

I do not see any reason that GPS should have any trouble navigating the poles.


"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
User currently offlineRendezvous From New Zealand, joined May 2001, 543 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (14 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 12748 times:

That route isn't over the magnetic north pole anyway.

User currently offlineAHawk From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (14 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 12748 times:

That's right, Leftseat86. Continental flies 777s nonstop EWR <-> HKG 4 times a week.

User currently offlineJesseycy From New Zealand, joined Aug 2001, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 3 months ago) and read 12684 times:

Away from the topic.....

So are the EWR-HKG flights full? I gather they would be catered for the business people, rushed for time..... It would have been one amazing flight for aviation fans though........ Imagine looking down at the ice caps if it's clear.....

User currently offlineNicolasrolland From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (14 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12641 times:

the EWR-HKG Route with Continental
I dont think it use the polar routes right?
well Im just not sure that it goes thru the north pole... it use the conventional route going over canada,
alaska and back down to hongkong..

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Just like Cathay with their 14h flight
during some season from Hongkong -> Toronto

User currently offlineCarnoc From China, joined Oct 2001, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (14 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12626 times:

Details by China Southern Airlines official web site

China Southern Airlines Safely Flies NYC/Beijing Polar Test Run; No Problem For Boeing 777 Over North Pole

NEW YORK CITY - July 24, 2001- China Southern Airlines (NYSE: ZNH) (HKSE: 1055), the largest airline in The People's Republic of China is pleased to announce that it safely conducted a demonstration flight on a polar routing from New York City (JFK) to Beijing Capital Airport using its long-range Boeing 777 aircraft.

The aircraft, crammed with technicians from Boeing, CAAC and China Southern departed New York City at 01:13 a.m. (Beijing Time) on July 15 and traversed north over the United States, Canada, the North Pole, Russia's Far East and Mongolia before safely touching down 14 hours later at Beijing Capital Airport.

A north Polar route refers to flights over the North Pole area along a longitudinal direction, connecting North American metropolitan cities with their Asian counterparts. The current Sino-US transpacific air routes are along a latitudinal direction moving West/East around the Earth.

China Southern Airlines has always looked at a North Polar service with keen interest. The 6,559-nautical-mile route from New York to Beijing not only considerably shortens the distance between West and East but also saves fuel and can lower landing and take-off fees. And, perhaps most important, since it is a non-stop, direct flight, passengers can avoid time consuming transits at other international airports before reaching their final destination either in the United States or China.

North Polar flights present significant aviation challenges that typical flights never encounter: super strong magnetic fields which can heavily affect an aircraft's compass navigation and a full-year of sub-zero temperatures reaching minus 60-70 C degrees.

Such a low atmospheric temperatures could, to some extent, affect an aircraft's operation. The fluctuations in the Earth's magnetic field and few ground navigation facilities might also interrupt the normal communication between aircraft and airport ground stations.

And … there is the human factor.

The Arctic presents a bleak, featureless and dead world that might be an added psychological pressure on even the most seasoned airline pilot.

In an effort to meet these challenges head-on, the carrier created a special "Polar Flight Group" and with the full backing of China Southern's state-of-the-art System Operation Control Center in Guangzhou - the first advanced flight operations control system in The People's Republic of China - the carrier conducted a series of pre-flight evaluations and analysis of the planned air route and worked out a complete and detailed flight plan.

Mr. Jiang Ping, Vice President of China Southern Airlines was appointed as the team leader of the North Polar test flight which was staffed with the airlines' top two flight crews and six of the airlines' senior captains, including lead Captain Hao Jianhua.

Also tapped was Chief Pilot and the first-grade pilot of China Southern Airlines, Captain Shi Yongqiang, Director of China Southern's Operations Management Office; Captain Liu Qing, Deputy General Manager of the System Operation Control Center; Captain Wang Renjie, Deputy Director of China Southern's Boeing 777 Fleet; Captain Jin Weifeng, winner of the National May 1st Labor Award and Captain Hu Wei, Division Chief of the Boeing 777 fleet.

In addition, the airline selected the very best co-pilots and experienced cabin crew and maintenance staff to join the Polar Flight Group.

Meanwhile, China Southern Airlines invited senior flight instructors from Boeing to New York City to make presentations to the entire crew prior to the test flight.

In case of any possible unforeseen environmental factors the aircraft might encounter, the flight crew developed backup plans for their backup plans. The cockpit crew collected comprehensive information on weather; air to ground communication and navigation along the polar route; alternative airport landing sites; a detailed flight plan and "walked through" various emergency scenarios.

In addition, China Southern Airlines' maintenance staff - on hand at JFK International Airport - conducted a "top to bottom" inspection on the aircraft and strictly monitored the airplane's air worthiness during the flight.

After the briefing by Boeing, lead Captain Hao Jianhua, called together the entire flight crew to again conduct a detailed preflight countdown, elaborately selecting five airports scattered throughout Russia, Canada, Norway and Mongolia to serve as possible alternative sites for an emergency landing. For this test flight, China Southern Airlines selected the most difficult possible route - directly over the North Pole.

Simultaneously - 10,000 miles away in Guangzhou - aviation specialists at the System Operations Control Center worked all night long monitoring the aircraft's progress through Global Positioning Satellite technology and was able to keep in full voice contact with the airborne 777 flight crew.

Throughout the flight, the cockpit crew of the Boeing 777 reported that the aircraft was "stable and quite comfortable" as it zipped through the subzero atmosphere with little headwind and turbulence.

User currently offlineAA717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (14 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12598 times:

"...the Arctic presents a bleak, featureless..." That's why you take lots of DVD's for your laptop!:DTC

FL450, M.85
User currently offlineBoeing747-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12594 times:

Didn't Canada 3000, fly over the pole to New Deli India from Toronto with Heavy Airbus 340-300X?

User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (14 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12544 times:

Both the C3 flight to India and CO EWR-HKG are polar routes.


Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4748 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (14 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12511 times:

The Continental HKG flights are running pretty full at the moment, and have been pretty successful in all. Like all routes, it dipped post Sept 11th, but in our pass travel advisories, it is listed as one of the routes to avoid non-revving on at the moment due to high load factors.


User currently offlineJourdan747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (14 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12449 times:

In case anyone is interested, CONDOR flys from Fairbanks,Alaska non-stop over the pole to Frankfurt,Germany in a 767-300ER.And they also fly Anchorage non-stop over the pole to Frankfurt.

All these flights operate in the summer when there is daylight 24 hours over the poles so the chances of seeing landscape are really good if its clear skys.

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