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Skyservice A330-300  
User currently offlineDC10Tony From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1981 times:

Yesterday, I saw an A330-300 for the first time. It was operated by SkyService and its reg. was C-FBUS.

Just before we were about to push it back, I noticed something that said, "First A330 in North America" on its left side, but the lettering was gone, you could barely notice the writing.

Was this really the first A330 in N. America?

C-FBUS = Canada-First Airbus ? ?

It had Pratt and Whitney's too.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

Operating for AIH from MAN I take it.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1833 times:

It sure was!! It had the titles on the side for some time and have subsequently been removed, do a search on the photo's database and you can see it with the titles on it. Also, just a little tid bit of information for ya, defunct Canada 3000 was the first to operate the A330-200 in North America, or was it just Canada? I think it was North America.

From Canada,
SKYSERVICE_330


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7437 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1814 times:
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In which airport (I can deduce the flight number from the destination)?

David/MAN
Http://fly.to/northwest-spotters


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

Canada 3000 was teh first airline in the world to operate the 330-200 ans SSV was the first to operate any type of 330 in North America.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1771 times:

Minor tangent here: ironically, the 332 was probably the wrong aircraft for C3. They could have procured used 763's instead of new 332s (for about 1/2 the lease rate) and saved M$ since 1997. Perhaps enough to survive to now. C3 had trouble filling the 332's....it was probably too big a jump in capacity over the 752.

We all talk about the 2001 events (911, Royal purchase, CJ purchase, sked services, recession) that killed C3. I would add the 332 was a MAJOR contributing factor as well. A charter airline such as C3 should not have been 'launching' new models in service such as the 332.

IMHO
Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

True.....C3 could have gone for 8-10yo used 763's though, not necessarily new ones.





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1737 times:

Yeah they could have but C3 was too good for used airplanes...They were ELITE after all

I agree with YYZ717 that the 332 was a major mistake for C3, and one that even angus admitted. It was those particular airplanes that were the biggest problem, they did what not many people in their right mind would do, they bought a brand new (as yet un-tested) airplane with brand new (yet un-tested) engines...those engines were a major problem for CMM in the begining and the problem was never really solved. But by being the first to get this new plane and new engine design they got a really good deal on the airplane, which I guess won out over the 767 offer in the end. Too bad, we have enough plastic in Canada, should have got some real airplanes, right grant?  Smile



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineDC10Tony From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

"Operating for AIH from MAN I take it."

Yep.


User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

This is turning into a CMM post but here are my two cents.....If CMM did get the 767, which now seems like a good choice, they could still be in business. Then that would better lead to a 777 maybe?? Probably a better choice in Slawko's mind over that F'n 340 that didn't really do any good anyway??. I guess when they got the A320, it started turning into an Airbus Fleet!!!!

They should have planned better and I bet we (yyz folk) could put together a fleet that would rock and be cost effficient!!! But thats after leaning from CMM's mistakes!!!!

Hmmm, this all boeing fleet sounds a little like the makings of a little American....hmmmmm???

I am Grant and I am Canadian!!!



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

C3's first 332 (wiskey alpha) was, in my opinion, a jinked plane. And heck, I'm not even superstitious! But, if ever there was a black sheep of the fleet, that honour would go to C-GGWA

User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Sorry for the language....I got carried away...

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Wasnt really a test plane, it was just a brand new airplane, with a brand new engine, airlines dont usually put the two together when they buy or lease new planes, Angus did, because they gave him a good deal on the airplanes.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Easy now.
It's actually an impressive piece of machinery when you're up close and personal with it.... as I've been, on many occasions.
I know there are many people who have their preferences, but, somehow, you learn to appreciate the "other side" when you have a close working relationship with them. I have fond (and interesting) memories of wiskey alpha.

aw


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

Actually it was a test plane. Airbus used it in the 332 cert program.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1657 times:
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Not sure if I agree that the A330-200 was the wrong aircraft for Canada 3000. While it did have some early problems, especially with the GE-CF6 engines, these will have been warranty claims and fixed at the expense of the manufacturer responsible for that component.

While the 767 would have provided commonality with the 757 fleet, the A320 fleet, provided very similar commonality with the A330. If Canada 3000 were making the decision to head to an all-Airbus/single-flightdeck fleet then the A330 would have undoubtedly made sense.

The A330-200 is the aircraft of choice for the long-haul needs of charter airlines, Canada 3000 was the first, but their decision to take the A330-200 was validated by the many airlines that followed;

Airtours International
Monarch
JMC Airlines
Premiair
Corsair
Novair
Edelweiss
LTU
Air Transat
Air Luxor

Ironically the only major holiday airline that has openly rejected the A330-200 is Canada 3000's one time sister airline Air 2000. They chose the 767-300 for their longhaul fleet, then a few months later inherited an A330-200 order when they took over Leisure International. This order was soon cancelled in favour of more 767-300s.

I don't really think you can place much of the blame for what happened to Canada 3000 on the A330, they fell into a trap that several airlines have fallen into before;
Successful and profitable charter airline, makes major expansion into the scheduled market and goes out of business. A very similar story to Air Europe in the UK in 1991 after the Gulf war...

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

Well said Crosswind. I think the 332 was a contributor, albeit a minor one, in the C3 demise.

Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1615 times:

I can't agree with you more Yyz717....I think that C3 would have been better with say the 733 instead of a the A320.....then keep the 757 and add the 767...kind of a boeing fleet, but a better choice for the fleet. If they wanted to stay with Airbus??? I don't know why, but the A310 would have been a better choice for price reasons, but I know its not compatible with anything!!! SO, C3 was spending millions of dollars per month on an aircraft that didn't make much money

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineGate Keeper From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1607 times:

It is truely astounding how many arm chair CEO's there are on this site. I appreciate that you are penning your opinion but let's be realistic. Did C3 fail because they opted for Airbus not Boeing? No. The failure had to do with ill conceived, poorly executed expansion with the catch all 911 as the final straw. It sounds as though some here think that if C3 was 737,757,767 they wouldn't have failed? Ridiculous. The 330's had become(in the President's own words) the most profitable aircraft in the fleet. Slawko your "Elite" comment shows yet again that you have to get over what happened and move on.

User currently offlineTygue From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1603 times:

Here here, Gatekeeper.

It's time you folks moved on. Stop fighting over a corpse.



User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1606 times:
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Gmonney,
The B737-300 would never have been a great aircraft for Trans-Canada services. The 757/A320 combination is a good one, there's a list of airlines as long as your arm using it!

About the A310, Canada 3000 were seriously looking into taking some ex-Delta A310s in the early 1990s, the plan being to use them in place of the B757 on Trans-Atlantic routes, giving increased passenger and freight capacity and cutting out the Keflavik stops on longer routes. Like many things, it never went ahead for whatever reason...

Would have been interesting to see what use they made of the A310/757 combination once Royal had been fully integrated.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineRickB From United Kingdom, joined May 2003, 243 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1593 times:

going back to the Skyservice A330-300, I flew on it MAN > SFB > MAN a few of weeks ago and I have to say the interior of that aircraft has seen some serious abuse - it desperately needs a little TLC.

Window blinds missing, seats falling apart etc. and it rattles like you wouldn't believe on takeoff (seriously - use earplugs - every remaining window blind rattles loudly) - still it got me to Orlando and back with only a 1 hour technical delay on the return flight. Relatively spacious too for a charter flight.


User currently offlineDC10Tony From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Hey, I work on the ramp at SFB.

Be honest, what do you think of SFB, overall? Some have said it's a real pit.

Yeah, Airtours uses that 333 to go to Manchester from SFB. I didn't get to see the inside of it, but I'll bet it was 9-abreast.

What rattles when you're taking off, the seats, or the actual airframe?


User currently offlineSunbird From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 285 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1566 times:

yes it was here is as good as a view as I could find


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Marlo Plate



User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

Actually, C-FBUS is 2-4-2 (8 abreast) in "Y-class" and 2-3-2 in Premier Class.

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
25 Slawko : GateKeeper, when I made my ELITE comment, it was because it was something that the prided themselves on, C3 saw themselves as the best of the best, an
26 Yyz717 : Gatekeeper, I think C3 could have saved $M by leasing used 763's instead of new 332's. C3 was largely a low-yielding charter carrier. New derivatives
27 Sunbird : just my 2 cents worth No matter what is said and has happend I think it is just bad luck when airlines collapse. I dont think it has anything to do wi
28 Gate Keeper : "GateKeeper, when I made my ELITE comment, it was because it was something that the prided themselves on, C3 saw themselves as the best of the best, a
29 Yyz717 : You are correct Sunbird. But when an airline such as C3 decides to take a leap of faith and expand rapidly.....they should have substantial resources
30 RickB : I was quite impressed with SFB actually - okay its not exactly local to Orlando but its only a 35 minute drive away. Although the single lane road out
31 Gmonney : Here Here Slawko and Yyz717.....well said guys....Ok the all boeing fleet may have been a little off, but I'm sure that as we seem to be agreeing, the
32 DC10Tony : RickB- If you ever come to SFB again and need to get to Orlando quickly, take The Greeneway (417) instead of I-4, it's much faster and it's not a crow
33 Captaingomes : no no no no no no no no NO! If I may step in to C3's defense (cherish the moment, it will be rare!!!), let me try to rationalize C3's choice for the A
34 RickB : Thanks for that - last time I just headed down Lake Mary Blvd until I hit I4 north of Altamonte !! It didnt take too long but after a long flight its
35 Yyz717 : Nuno, I disagree on one point: costs of 332 vs 763. 763 much lower. A used 763 can be leased for about 1/2 the cost of a 332. The average charter (ind
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