Mik From Switzerland, joined May 2000, 132 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4814 times:
Does anyone know if the 1:1 Mock-up of the SST plane still exists?
I saw a picture at a museum homepage where the nose section is stored. ( Hiller Aviation Museum)
Boeing did win the US competition of designing a Super Sonic Plane in the 60`s / 70`s, and
then they build a real escale mock-up with complete cockpit and cabin.
There are some pictuers in the net from that mock-up. Look at www.boeing.com history
section.
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4542 times:
As Greg alluded to, for many years it sat in Florida.
A few years ago Hiller purchased it and moved it to California as a centerpiece to the Hiller Aviation Museum at KSQL (San Carlos, California). They have the nose section indoors and are slowly restoring it.
It's very impressive especially when you realize the size of it (as compared to the Concorde or the B-70)
Flygga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4515 times:
Yes the nose section of the mock-up currently resides at the Hiller Aviation Museum http://www.hiller.org and is in the process of being restored. Here are some photos of it:
Since these photos were taken, a lot of restoration work has been completed. The exterior has a fresh coat of paint and the cockpit is almost completed.
Fanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1850 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4447 times:
Cool photos, Richard. Thanks!
A flight engineer's station - wow, that's a blast from the past! Actually, I'm old enough to remember seeing the black-and-white photo of Boeing's new creation in the newspaper. I also had a Revell kit of the Boeing SST, complete with Pan American markings....
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
IMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6047 posts, RR: 50 Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4424 times:
I'm glad to see a remnant still exists. I saw it many years ago in the museum, now defunct, in Kissimmee Florida.
I think a test for people to live in the southwest US should be no A/C in the car for a summer.
Flygga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4274 times:
I remember seeing photos of the mock-up sitting in an overgrown field in Florida years ago. It was a mess. This was before the Hiller brought the nose section to the museum. I am not sure but I think the musuem only acquired the nose section.
SuperG From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 58 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4252 times:
The Boeing 2707-300 metal mockup was in a scrapyard near the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. I happened upon it in while visiting there in October, 1998. It was in several large pieces, but was easily identifiable. I don't know if it's still there.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7344 posts, RR: 56 Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4187 times:
The Delta picture is not the same SST design, it looks more like a McDonnell DOuglas proposal. It doesn't have the sexy swing wing design (which was one of the main things that killed the programme, so much $$$). Anyone got any more artists impressions in airline livery? Love to see Pan Am, United, maybe a bit of JAL or Qantas action?
SuperG From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 58 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4138 times:
Flygga,
The first photo is actually the 2707-200. You can tell by the canards on the forward fuselage.
4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2707 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
Great links!
If Lockheed had gotten the contract to begin with, would their version ever have been placed into production?
UALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4105 times:
UAL had a large wooden model of the Boeing SST in UA Livery located in the lobby of EXO back in the 70's when my father worked there. Does anyone know what happen to it? UA must still have it, is it at DENTK now?
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12356 posts, RR: 83 Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4084 times:
Many were surprised when Boeing got the SST contract in 1966, Lockheed's experience with high-speed flight had made them the front-runner in many people's opinion, and their delta L2000 design looked less risky, even allowing for the Mach 2.7 speed.
They were proved right, the VG 2707 proved an impractical design, the weight of the huge swing-wing mechanism was excessive, and early tests with models indicated the wings would need strengthening.
The second 2707 VG design moved the huge GE4 turbojets to the massive horizontal stabiliser, a bitter Lockheed engineer commented 'I guess they had to put 'em there to prevent them from burning the tail off!'
With the swing wings, the complex triple slotted trailing-edge flaps, leading edge flaps, all the other flight controls plus the complex droop nose, the 2707 had 59 moving surfaces, concerning to some potential pilots.
In 1969, Boeing changed the 2707 design to the -300 tailed delta.
Much more conventional, but the Mach 2.7 speed required extensive use of titainium, and those GE4's, each with some 60,000lbs of reheated thrust, would have been much noisier then even Concorde's engines.
As we all know, aircraft noise and pollution had become serious issues by 1970, the 2707 had enemies, though some were more concerned with 90% of the 2707 development coming from tax $.
Must have been quite a sight to see right-wing republicans allied with enviromentalists!
Finally, in March 1971, Congress voted by a majority of one to stop funding 2707 development, the wrong-headed initial designs had lost too much time and money.
Lockheed's design probably would have flown, though whether it would ever had entered service is another matter, the Boeing SST, though much bigger than Concorde, (230 pax), had about the same range.
I think the L2000 would have been similar.
Apart from the remains discussed previously, there was a legacy from the 2707 programme still with us, late in the project, Boeing were looking at cathode-ray tube displays for the 2707, though a flight engineer would still be required, along with plenty of conventional instuments for the Capt. and F/O.
4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2707 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4040 times:
GDB,
Thanks so much for the info!!! I do wonder if the funding was cut off when the Boeing design became more impractical and expensive. Had the more realistic Lockheed design gotten that last vote to OK the funding, I wonder if the environmentalist complaints would have mattered. We'll never know.
BTW, I remember having a toy Boeing SST when I was a kid. It was steel and had the variable geometry wings. I'd love to have that today!
Mik From Switzerland, joined May 2000, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4026 times:
Thanks for all that feedback...
I wonder why Lockeed and Boeing made the plane so "big" for more then 200 pax.
Why they didnt try to design a Concorde-like plane. Perhaps then they hadnt spend
so much money!
Peace
Mik
25 GDB: The FAA directed the SST programme in the US, following a Presidential order from JFK, after the Concorde programme was launched. Kennedy feared that
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