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Large Cathay Pacific Order Comming  
User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

Hong Kong, Jan. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., Hong Kong's only long-haul airline, plans to order more aircraft this year to cope with increasing traffic.

The carrier said it will buy the planes from manufacturers already represented in its fleet, such as Boeing Co. and Airbus Industrie.

Only last month, Cathay ordered three new planes from Europe's Airbus. The A330-300 aircraft will be delivered in the first quarter of 2001, increasing its Airbus fleet to 29 and its total fleet to 65. Such planes typically cost between $120 million and $140 million each.

``The orders we've announced will not be the last,'' said James Hughes-Hallett, Cathay's chairman. ``We have an idea of what our fleet's going to look like, but we're not going to reveal it just yet. We have to keep pace with demand in Asia.''

He said the airline is mainly interested in increasing service on existing routes. Cathay, for example, doesn't now have enough planes to increase flight frequency during next month's Chinese New Year holidays, one of its busiest periods.

As demand for seats has increased, so has the price of jet fuel, which has almost tripled since last February. Fuel accounts for about 15 percent of Cathay's operating costs.
------------------------------------------------------

Rumor has it that this is the 777X launch order.


42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyAA757 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1627 times:

I have also read on other forums about the 777X. Perhaps at the Asian airshow in Feb. I have also heard more 773s, but that no more new Airbus a/c will be ordered direct for a while. Hot off the rumor mill is that CX has agreed to take 5 A340-312s from Gulf Air and 1 A340-313X(nee-Aero Arg?) from ILFC instead of more new build.
Will this set off an order frenzy in Asia? I hope so!


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1612 times:

This is great news, although CX obviously isn't giving too much away - "the order will come from Cathay's existing suppliers" . . . like they have a choice. (Somehow I don't see IL96s figuring in the airline's fleet).

Seriously, though, I have heard about the CX deal for GF A340s and one A340 from ILFC. I don't think AR will be involved; they haven't operated A340-300s yet and are waiting for their first. (Have they cancelled one?) I had heard they were also looking for CX's A340s too, but these six aircraft will probably do the job for a while. Ironically, GF now operates A340s to HK! I can just picture Cathay people running around with measuring tapes and new seat material as passengers are disembarking!

Now, the big question: A340s or 777s. Okay, I'm an Airbus person, but I did note that the airline did not figure in the list of 773X orders mentioned on this site yesterday. I really don't think CX would enjoy having the GE90 foisted on it. However, I'm not going to get into this debate right now. Whatever they buy, I'll look forward to flying in . . .

PS This may sound like an absurd suggestion, BUT would it be possible for airlines that really like the 777X but not the GE90, to order the aircraft, BUT retrofit the engines it wants after and basically get Boeing to give the GE90s back? Absurd as it might sound, I'm sure that CX would be an early customer. Just a thought.


User currently offlineBacardi182 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

ar already has a few airbuses and is operating them to sydney and new york and other places. they have had them for about half a year

User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6605 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1567 times:

Staff at Cathay are not normally told much, but I get the general feeling around the place that more Airbuses will be on the way, and not neccessarily Boeings. This excluding the 5 GF A340s of course. Interestingly though, the 5 GF ones are not -313Xs, but -312 and have a lower takeoff weight of 260,000kg as opposed to the our A340s which have a MTOW of 275,000kg.

These new A340s will have the time taken to properly install the Cathay interior including the new first class called "Betsy" and the individual PTVs. This is after a flood of complaints against the three leased 340s from Air China, which were hurried into service in CX colours (Inside and out), but with no first class and PTVs in economy.


User currently offlineAirbus A3XX From Australia, joined May 1999, 507 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1556 times:

I think Besty is just the name of their first DC-3, not their new frist class.......

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

No, Airbus A3XX, they do call their new First Class seats Betsy. The one problem, apparently, is that the A340s cannot take the new seat, apparently because of floor loading. However, I'm sure that can be recitified in some way, with a special strengthened design to the forward floor.

Anyway, this is my prediction . . .

Cathay will split its new order between large regional aircraft (i.e. the
777-300) and the A340-5/600. The 777 order will be for around 8-10 aircraft, but
will be contingent on Boeing finding a new home for the 777-200s, which Cathay was never really too fond of.

The main order will be for around 14-16 A340s, split to be determined closer to a decision time set by Airbus (i.e. haven't thought that far ahead, but would
expect 6 -500s and 8 -600s).

I would expect CX to be a launch customer for new model 747 Stretch. The 400 Stretch would be used on certain high density local routes, plus Sydney, LA,
Vancouver and London. I'd estimate a requirement for about 6.

Isn't it lucky for them I don't sign their cheques!


User currently offlinePanman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Aug 1999, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1537 times:

Hmm I was wondering, is China allowing Cathay to order aircraft when it wants while the rest of the Chinese airlines have to wait for government approval and for the CAAC to do the ordering and distribute the aircraft.

Panman


User currently offlineFlyAA757 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Aero Arg has taken delivery of 2 A342s. They were also supposed to get 2 343s. One of those aircraft was severly damaged in a storm while being prepared in France. The other aircraft is in storage, and is unpainted. As the original deliv date has passed with no progress, and the damage to 1 a/c, I dont believe Aerolineas will take delivery. The airline is rumored to be very near bankruptcy. The new, expensive leases arent looking to good now.

User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6605 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1518 times:

I have heard from some people in CX, that we will not order any more 747 passenger aircraft. I am not sure if this had any truth to it though.

As for HKG needing the Chinese CNAC approval for purchasing aircraft; no. We will order aircraft when we want to. HKG, is not controlled by China to the extent where this is happening. Essentially, things in HKG have not changed that much at all. A couple of months ago we ordered 3 A330-300Xs. Nothing to do with the Chinese authorities.


User currently offlineAshford747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

Can someone correct me if I am wrong that Cathay Pacific is planning to lease ex-Gulf Air Airbus A340 aircrafts.

I am aware that CX is about to make its decision about its fleet expansion but there are so many rumours about what aircrafts they will be buying. From my observations and readings, I can only say what has been speculated and the is it is either the Boeing 777-300X (be a launch customer) but CX prefers Rolls Royce engines and not GE. The other option would be RR powered A340-500/600 or if Boeing brings out a new 747-400X or -500/600 series.


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6605 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

Within the airline, it seems pretty firm that we will take the five Gulf Air 340s. At the moment they have a lesser take-off weight than our ones, so not sure what will happen there. We are also looking at least one A340 from ILFC. Possibly an older one.

As for the big order coming somethime mid-year, whatever we order, cathay want it asap. We are already desperate for more capacity, and more short-term leases like the Air China and Gulf Airs won't be enough. We are looking at doubling the size of the airline and flying to places like Tehran, Riyadh, Cairo, Pakistan, UAE, Honolulu, Miami and Dallas.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

From the orders site the word is that CX will order more of every type they have in the fleet. 747-400s, 777-300s, A340-300s along with possibly the A340NG and 777-300X. Just last month the airline ordered 3 A330-300s. If the airline is looking for more capacity then the 747 is the place to go. More capacity than anything else in the fleet. Right now it looks as if an order for the A3XX/747NG will be placed in 2002. Maybe they will be the launch customer for the 747NGs.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Hello, fellow Cathay fans!

I have heard (from various sources) that Cathay is looking very seriously at the A3XX and as far as launch customers go, Airbus could hardly get much better than that. If the 747 Stretch/ER were available in 2002/3, I think many airlines would choose it over the A3XX, but with only a year or so in the difference, they can wait the extra few months for a better and newer aircraft. Mmm. . . Cathay A3XXs. Now those I must fly in . . .


As for the A340s from Gulf Air, although they have a considerably lower MTOW (260 v. 275), they could still do many routes now flown by the A340s - Auckland, possibly London, Anchorage/YYZ, Australia. However, I am wondering if (1) they are intended to be leased as stopgaps until the -5/600s arrive (i.e. all part of an Airbus deal) and (2) whether their being A340s has anything to do with their intended range. As past history has shown, Cathay has been an advocate of "intelligent misuse of aircraft" - and the aircraft could have been chosen just because they were available and could fly around Asia. Even though the 340 is designed for long haul routes, it would still be a very economical aircraft on local flights.


User currently offlineGoA340 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

the SQ A340-313s, they have MTOW of 275....timing can become an issue though. Do you guys think A330-200s can become a candidate for thin long routes?
Coming to the permission question for buying aircfrafts...CX is a private airline being responsible for their own financials and can decide on its own whereas all Chinese Airlines are owned by the goverment/region, which obliges them to have permission to buy....


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

From what I have heard the economical data for the A3XX and 747X have not come in yet for CX. They would also not be a launch customer for the A3XX. They will order one of the jumbos if not both but that will only be at the earliest 2002. For right now they are looking into purchasing more 747-400s, 777-300s and A340-300s along with possibly A340NG or 777-300X or both. I doubt that we will see any A340-300 orders seeing that they have added 5 more to the fleet (4) Gulf Air and (1) ILFC along with the (3) leased from Air China.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

I was just thinking about how far Cathay Pacific has come. In 1994 the airline operated 747-200s, 747-300s, 747-400s that were brand spanking new, and L1011s. The 747-400s are now the veterans of the fleet the 747 "Classics" have left on leases/sold/stored, the L1011s have gone the same way. Now we have an entirely EFIS fleet of (19) 747-400s, (4) 777-200s, (7) 777-300s, (11) A340-300s (3) leased and (5) on the way along with 13 A330-300s with (3) on order.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineAshford747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1492 times:

Will be Gulf Air leased aircraft feature the Cathay Pacific seats as I believe the Air China lease does not have first class and the seats are of Air China.

Can someone confirm what Cathay Pacific will be doing in terms of products in First , Business and Economy Class and weather these aircrafts will have CX seats and PTV's.

Also confirm when the Gulf Air and leased ILFC aircrafts will be entering CX fleet and for how long will they serve before being returned to the owner.


User currently offlinePandora From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

If Deltaair is correct, we will see the 777X being launched by cathay!!!(instead of peviously believed as air france).

this have proven that boeing can kick airbus' arse!


User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1492 times:

I don't know if I am correct because it is only a rumor, but hten again remember when everyone thought BA would order the 717? I certainly hope that I am.

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1470 times:

I am not saying that this is correct but I continue to hear from good sources that 747-400/400X and 777-300Xs are a very BIG possibility


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

I've just been to PPrUnet and there's a fairly heated argument going on re the 777 -v- A340-600. There's not too many of them there (about 20 replies), but they do seem to favour the 777X. However, they don't make the decisions and again, it's worth stressing that for the likes of CX, the decision they make is one they are stuck with. If they buy an aircraft with GE engines and something goes wrong (which, as we have seen is not impossible), what will they do? Remember, as CX Flyboy (I think) said early on this thread, CX is looking at a lot of new routes and I am not sure they would like to risk a 77X on Dallas with the GE 90 being as reliable as it is now. Sure, it will improve, but enough. It's a hell of a big ocean and the RR Trent will do the job - and there's four of them . . .

User currently offlineFlying-tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1468 times:

Has anyone taken a look what engines CX operates? The 340-300 as the CFM56, there is no other choice. The 777-200/-300 have the TRENT 800 (RR), the 330-300 has the TRENT 700 and I expect the 747-400 to have the RB211. This leaves CX with a nearly complete RR-powered fleet. From this point of view the 340-500/-600 makes sense as they are TRENT 500 powered. Adding the GE90, which isn´t performing very well at the moment, would mean producing somewhat more costs due you have to store parts for this engine. The TRENT 500 has some essential parts taken from the other TRENTs which would mean reducing theses cost.

Just my 0.02 cents.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http//fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2266 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1477 times:

GE has recalled all 777 engines built before a certain date. This is a brand new engine design built specifically for this type. I disagree with Boeing's decision to offer this engine type only on the X version, but this ridiculous harping of the "crap" GE product is completely ignorant. To build such a complex machine from scratch is not easy. RR has f***** up plenty of times in the past when introducing new engines and so has PW. GE will continue to modify and work this engine until it is on par or better than its competitors. You don't achieve a 50% worldwide marketshare in jet engines by selling crap.

Nevertheless, I'd love to see Cathay order 10+ 777Xs and just tell Boeing to deliver them with RRs. Now that would be an interesting day in Everett.


User currently offlineBo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (14 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1457 times:

And on that day, Boeing would tell CX to f**k off!

Please remember that it was not a concious choice by Boeing to offer only an uprated GE90 variant--RR and PW would only consider the job if they received sole supplier rights to the 777X project. Now who's being arrogant there?

Remember that not only CX will be ordering the 777X---how the hell would Bowing sell the type to Air France with RR Trents?


25 Wingman : Actually, RR was the only one of the three that did not include the exclusivity stipulation in their discussions with Boeing. Boeing's pulled some stu
26 Bo : Remember that the world you're dealing with often revolves around the concept of the lowest bidder. GE makes Boeing a damn good deal for those engines
27 Ravi : Thankfully some of the people on this forum aren't running Airbus, Boeing, GE or indeed any other aerospace firm. The GE90 engine exclusivity decision
28 CX flyboy : Please stop the bickering. Remember what this forum is about. As for the Cathay order, as someone mentionned, it all comes down to money. If it costs
29 Pandora : Kai Tak, you are worried about ETOPS, aren't you. there's no problem with today's reliable engines as you would know. just look at all those A330 and
30 Kaitak : Hi Pandora. I'm not so worried and I agree completely with what you say. I have flown to Atlanta and back on a DL 777 before Christmas and had absolut
31 CX747 : Could you say that the reason for increasing bus training is that you just order 3 new A330-300s and are leasing in 5 A340-300s? I believe that that i
32 Kaitak : I've always been very interested in the issues around crew conversion. In Cathay, how does it happen? Say, for argument's sake and in a fit of wishful
33 CX747 : It is my guess that new first officers operate in the 777s and A330s as they do no fly the long haul sectors which seniority would obviously be needed
34 CX flyboy : Conversion from a Second Officer to a Junior F/O runs on a seniority list. When the time comes, and a new JFO is needed, they take the most senior S/O
35 CX747 : So how does the 747-400 fleet and A340-300 fleet go about getting new crews? Do they take them from officers already established in the 777 and A330?
36 Pandora : all other people: it seems we are saying that WE ARE deciding what CX will order. let's not look too far and let the airline do the calculations. cx74
37 CX747 : After reading the 747 article posted by Hypermike it sure seems that these new behemoths would fit in quite nicely at CLK. Commonality with the exisit
38 CX747 : After reading the 747 article posted by Hypermike it sure seems that these new behemoths would fit in quite nicely at CLK. Commonality with the exisit
39 Bo : Now just how the hell does an A346 count as a suitable replacement for the 744 in an airline that wants to beef up capacity!?!? Just wait until you se
40 Oxygen : Are you saying that the A340-600 is an awkward ugly looking beast, BO?!
41 Bo : Yes that is what I am saying...look at the length of the beast--it is sure to have real problems maneuvering around airports and especially LANDINGS.
42 Kaitak : Hmm . . . Like the 777-300X is nice and compact! It's actually going to be longer than the A340-600. However - I have to agree, fitting them into Kai
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