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Why Is MEX Such A Difficult Airport To Operate?  
User currently offlineTOMASKEMPNER From Mexico, joined May 2001, 389 posts, RR: 1
Posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

I was reading that it´s quite hard to land and take off from Mexico City´s airport and that not every airliners has what it takes to fly here.

Why because of the altitude ?

Even though we recieve every day :
744, 743, 742, 727, 732, 733, 735, 738, 737, 772, 763, 762, 752, 320, 319, DC9, M11, etc.



15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7993 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Well, given that Mexico City is 2,309 meters above sea level, when you have summer temperatures around 23-27 degrees C. the phrase hot and high conditions really apply. This is similar to the situation at DEN during the summer months.

User currently offlineUvalencia From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

I would say that first of all, the high altitude and high temperatures, engines dont like that so the airplanes have to depart from MEX with either less fuel or less payload. A friend of mine that worked for Mexicana in the 80's told me that for example, the flight from MEX to DEN needed to do a technical stop at ZIH just to refuel because the airplane (727) would not be able to take off with all the fuel needed for the trip.

And with respect to landing my guess would be the difficult approach procedure for the 05L and 05R, specially the MATEO 5 arrival, difficult because is has a very short final leg, I think is less than 5 miles from the point the airplane is stablished in the ILS (MW NDB) up to the Touch down point. In addition the approach is flown over the city with some high buildings in the approach like the Mexico City WTC. Also the high traffic density.

Those would be my guesses.


User currently offlineVrefplus5 From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

Uvalencia is correct. Jet performance is severely reduced out of MMMX due to high alt/temp conditions. A runway/climb limited takeoff with a power loss will not be pretty excursion. Because of obstacles in the departure path, single engine maneuvering is challenging and best practiced in the simulator. For approach, the Mateo Star takes some extra forward planning. In actual IFR, the turn to final to 05R takes a lot of co-ordination in an A300B4 and probably most other heavy jets

User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Well, I don't know how hard it is, we better leave that to pilots like Vrefplus5 who know better, but any of you who have flown into MEX can attest that it can be a pretty nice view (and a rough approach cometimes too!!)


User currently offlineFlydeltasjets From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

All of the above factors are true...I would just like to add a couple more.

1. Mountains

2. Language differences

3. The runways have not been cleaned in YEARS. I think there is rubber on there from the Write Flyer's tires! If it is at all wet, the runway gets REAL slick. Combine that with the higher groundspeed required by the density altitude, and sometimes the landing gets kind of squirrely.





User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2080 times:

Ok, let´s relate your answar to the question..

"Why Is MEX Such A Difficult Airport To Operate?"

Ok, Mountains should be a problem on the approach.. or at difficult days, where you have terrible WX conditions.

Language differences?? What the .... really I can´t find something related to Aviation... (I.E. I should ask LH498 pilots, if they have problems when they tune MEX_TWR while they are on the VOR/DME2 Approach (ex. Mateo 6 Arrival) if they have problems with language when they request landing clearance in English.)

Should rwys be clanead every.. month?? every 3, 6. 9 months?? I can imagine airports like KLAX, KLAS, KMIA, KJFK, KORD, etc, always with very HIGH TRAFFIC DEMAND, and when you check on the ATIS (Airport Terminal Information Service) Active runways... I can imagine hearing "Rwy 04R is closed by cleaning manteinance, be aware of all cars, traffic, cleaning the runways".

About the wet taxiways, and runways.. there´s nothing much to say.. that REALLY is BIG problem, on months which rain a lot in the City.... but we have to remember that Mexico City is above Texcoco lake... so that´s why we have big flood problems everywhere.

-------------
Not a pilot for now... but I can said there are factors to consider like WX Conditions (Temperature, Dew Point,Humid) and the airport altitude (7,343 ASL.)

Ricardo Morales  Smile



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineFlydeltasjets From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

Wow. I just reread my post and I can't believe I spelled good ol' Wilbur and Orville's last name wrong. I HAVE to start proofreading!

My apologies to the two fine men, wherever they may be!


User currently offlineUBBA Pilot From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2036 times:

Ghost77: Like Flydeltajets said, if the runways that are coated with old rubber at it rains, the braking action is not going to be very good. This can make for a longer than expected stopping distance.

As far as language differences, this has been a major contributor in many aviation disasters (i.e. Tenerife and countless others).

Bob


User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Didn't one of the runways get repaved less than 1 year ago? I remember that there were tremendous problems and delays for that, I suffered them!!

User currently offlineFlydeltasjets From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

Could be, Cx. I haven't been there for a couple years. Anyone know if the "JetSet" bar in the Zona Rosa is still going strong? Great place!

User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2443 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

Both runways in MEX airport were repaved less than a year ago. The last time there was work done to one of MEX runways was in November 2001.

Flydeltasjets:

Most of the people I know, including me, avoid the Zona Rosa. There are lots of new bars that are going strong. The problem here in Mexico is that every bar has a cycle and few of the keep strong more than two years after they were opened.

Rojo


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Ok, yes, you might be right... with Language differences you can have incidents too.  Big thumbs up

I just find a clear example in the last days:

http://www.airdisaster.com/news/0302/14/news.shtml

Ricardo Morales  Smile APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineAM From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 589 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1935 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

How often do you fly to MEX? What do you think about the airport and the city?

By the way, are you flying the 757/767?




"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1911 times:

As Rojo said, we all try to avoid Zona Rosa like the plague. . .but then of course there are "special" places (Flydeltas jets knows what I mean) like the "jetSet". I went there years ago and it was the only decent thing around (if we can call that type of place decent!!!). But next time you come down here, there are meny other places that are way better than anything currently at the Zona Rosa, which basically sucks since about 10 years ago. Send an e-mail whenever you come down here again.



User currently offlineFlydeltasjets From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Thanks cx,

I haven't been to MEX in a couple of years. I used to fly in there with TWA on the MD-80. The trip was JFK - MSY- MEX. I used to bid the trip whenever I could. I love the red beans and rice at Jester's, the restaurant in MSY, I loved flying into MEX, I liked the hotel (Sheriton Maria Isabel), and I liked the food and the city. Also, a dirty captain of mine dragged me to the Jetset one night. I hated every minute of it!  Big grin

Since I went to work for Delta, I have not been back to MEX, but I have good memories of it, and I hope to get back someday. When I do, I will e-mail you cx.

By the way, we used to have a couple of beers every night at a greek restaurant in the Zona Rosa. I think the name of the place was Zorba's. The owner (Dino) was a great guy. If you ever get in there, tell him the TWA guys say "hi". He always treated us well.


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