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Denver Offering $1M Incentives For MEX Non-stop  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

From the Denver Post:



DIA seeks more foreign nonstops


$1 million in incentives dangled for Mexico route

By Greg Griffin
Denver Post Business Writer


Thursday, March 14, 2002 - Denver International Airport is back at work trying to attract nonstop service to faraway destinations.

Mayor Wellington Webb said Wednesday that the city will pay $1 million in marketing incentives to the first carrier to commit to flying daily nonstops between Denver and Mexico City. And airport officials will travel to Paris in May to make another try at luring Air France to DIA.

"We've been talking about trying to get a direct flight to Mexico City for two years. Mexico is a logical next step for us," said Webb's spokesman, Andrew Hudson.

Passengers now must spend about seven hours to get to Mexico City from Denver. A direct flight would take a little over three hours.

The city has had some success with the incentive strategy. British Airways and Lufthansa German Airlines each took the bait when they started service to London and Frankfurt in recent years, though they've said the money wasn't critical in their decisions.

But Air France so far hasn't expressed much public interest in flying to Denver, $1 million or not.

The incentive for Mexico flights indicates that city officials are optimistic that they may have a chance to land the service. In the past, the city has dangled the incentive after already entering discussions with carriers.

The airline must operate the flight for at least a year to receive the incentives.

DIA communications manager Amy Bourgeron said airport officials have discussed nonstop Mexico City flights with Mexicana Airlines, United Airlines and Alaska Airlines, which begins Denver service April 28 and already flies south of the border from several West Coast cities.

Mexicana has flown from Denver for 30 years, but currently offers only one-stop service to Mexico's capital city through various beach resort cities, and the frequency varies by destination.

Webb said members of Denver's business community are clamoring for nonstop flights to Mexico City. Mexico was Colorado's seventh-largest trading partner last year and one of just a handful whose imports from the state grew during the year.

Paris is another coveted route. Bourgeron said the city was making progress in convincing Air France until Sept. 11, which sent the entire airline industry into a financial crisis. Recently, however, Air France officials called and invited Denver officials back in May to restart the talks.

"It's encouraging, a sign that things are starting to recover and airlines are looking forward again," she said.


SOURCE: http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,33%257E460798,00.html?search=filter

Mexicana currently flies to Denver 5 times a week, however it stops in either Puerto Vallerta or Los Cabos (depends on the weekday) before arriving in Mexico City.

They've been trying to lure Air France for about 3 years now and have gotten quite close. They'll be discussions this May about starting the route, and the route might be launched sometime next year if all goes well and the airline industry continues to recover as it is now.

Regards


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2592 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

Last time I looked United had a flight or two from Denver International to a couple of cities around the country.... Big grin

Good God, if they couldn't start a flight, what in the world is wrong with Denver?


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5276 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Wait a minute, I thought DEN already had service to MEX. Where exactly does MX fly to from DEN?


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

OA412,

I said in my post.

They fly from Mexico City to DEN with a stop either in Puerto Vallerta or Los Cabos. So it isn't non-stop.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5276 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

I really should finish reading posts before replying!
:o

Anyway back to the topic, AF and CDG is a tough one. According to AF themselves DTW was supposed to be their next US destination after PHL and DFW. I have also heard rumours that they are looking into SAN, PHX, and SEA. And, even though it is a relatively small market, you really cannot discount SLC because of its SkyTeam hub status. Of course, the fact that AF invited DEN officials back is a good sign but, we'll have to see how it all turns out.

I still thinks it's pretty surprising that DEN does not have a non-stop to MEX considering we here in SLC have a twice weekly non-stop SLC-MEX on AM.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2369 times:

Air France to DEN has been on a roller-coaster for most of the years.

Originally they wanted to have it one-stop through ORD, then they thought about having DL doing the flight for them, now there plan is for them to do the flight sometime.

A while ago, a possibility also was for the DEN flight to continue to SLC.

I emailed the Denver spokesman 2 weeks ago and he told me if the airline industry continues to recover as it is now, Air France should be a year away. So that's a good sign.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2361 times:

CDG-DEN-SLC would make sense surely!DEN has little service to Euroland

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Yes, CDG-DEN-SLC does make sense. However, I think Air France wants to make it non-stop from last I heard.

I think they've dropped this option for now.

We'll see though.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2332 times:

Thats pretty pathetic... no DEN-MEX nonstops.

As far as I'm concerned, if there was a bigger niche, United would fly that route, I mean they are partners with Mexicana out of MEX, so if there was demand, I am sure it would be flown.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2326 times:

I agree, it is very pathetic that there is no non-stop DEN-MEX.

From what I've heard DL is doing fantastic on SLC-MEX and Salt Lake City is half the size of Denver.

Salt Lake City has a population of 1.3 million people, while Denver has 2.7 million.

Denver also has a good sized Hispanic population.

From what I've heard, UA was planning on starting DEN-MEX, but 9/11 changed all that.

I'm sure they will put it back on the boards though.

I think there is a very good possibility that we will see DEN-MEX sometime by the end of the year. If not, then surely sometime next year.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2325 times:

DEN lacks the business traffic necessary to support a MEX nonstop. They'll just have to settle for DEN-DFW-MEX on American or similar connecting itineraries.


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5276 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2319 times:

Well, the census bureau's population figures can be a little misleading. According to the census bureau SLC includes Ogden to the north but not Provo to the south. SLC's actual catchement area actually approaches 2 million people (not exactly but very close). What is DEN's actual catchement area?


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2311 times:

OA412,

DEN's actual catchement area is just Denver and it's suburbs which include Littleton, Golden, Commerce City, Aurora, Lakewood, etc.

If you include Castle Rock to the south. Boulder, Longmont, Broomfield to the north. The population is well over 3 million.

DeltaSFO,

You are very mistaken their. MEX is DEN's 7th largest trading partner. Not only that, but Denver has a large Hispanic population.

It's been studied many times. The loads are definately there.

If DL can do SLC-MEX non-stop, then DEN-MEX is not a problem at all.

UA has never been big on international from DEN. They've treated as a domestic hub only which is why there isn't an MEX non-stop.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineSFOintern From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 770 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2308 times:

Not long ago UA had a DEN-MEX seasonal flight. It lasted a couple of years.

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2312 times:

I do think that a market exists, and I do think DEN-MEX could be succsesful, but DeltaSFO is right. The business market on DEN-MEX is small, which is why MX flies one-stop flights to leisure destinations and that's probably why DEN-MEX still does not exists. However, I do think DEN-MEX will likely happen. Still, though, look at other, much larger Hispanic markets that lack Mexico City service, notably Boston and Philadelphia (and if you want to include Ft. Lauderdale seperate from Miami, them too, but FLL-MEX is coming this summer).


a.
User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6220 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2305 times:

AM is doing well on the SLC-MEX route becuase they have feed from Delta flights so MX could do well on a DIA-MEX route with the feed from UAL's flights from the Northwest .
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2305 times:

BA, DL does not do SLC-MEX non-stop, AM does, and only twice a week (or is 3x?). Also, Denver's Hispanic population may be "large" compared to other cities in the Rockies and Midwest, which it actually is, but it is still nothing compared to cities that, as I stated, also lack MEX service, like Boston and Philadelphia, as well as Tampa and Orlando. DEN-MEX will happen, IMO, because of the connection possibilities at DEN, not because of the small business market that exists between DEN and MEX.


a.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2300 times:

Mah4546,

DEN-MEX is a lot bigger than you think. It is the biggest trading market from DEN in all of the Americas.

That Denver Post article says how big of a market DEN is

It is a heavily traveled business route and from what I've heard Mexicana's service to DEN is mostly O&D rather than connections.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2298 times:

Mah4546,

You are VERY mistaken about "small business" market between MEX and DEN.

I will try to find the numbers for you. But I'll tell you from now, they are pretty big.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2293 times:

You are very mistaken their. MEX is DEN's 7th largest trading partner. Not only that, but Denver has a large Hispanic population.

It's been studied many times. The loads are definately there.

If DL can do SLC-MEX non-stop, then DEN-MEX is not a problem at all.


MEX as in Mexico City or as in the country of Mexico? Most of the cultural connections between Denver and Mexico are tied more in with the more industrial northern states of Mexico rather than Mexico City, DF, which is the financial and governmental center of the country.

There may be a lot of trade between Denver and Mexico, but I wouldn't dream of putting Denver in the same category as New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Dallas/Fort Worth, Atlanta, and Houston, all of which have extensive nonstop service to Mexico City and have the traffic to support it as well as future growth.

Most "large Hispanic populations" tend to be from areas of Mexico other than Mexico City. DEN is better served pushing for more nonstops to points in Northern Mexico where they'll get better O&D numbers.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2296 times:

Mah4546,

This is what the newspaper said:

Webb said members of Denver's business community are clamoring for nonstop flights to Mexico City. Mexico was Colorado's seventh-largest trading partner last year and one of just a handful whose imports from the state grew during the year.

To give you an example, there are many companies based out of Denver that have there products manufactuered in Mexico City and shipped to Denver, then distributed to the rest of the US.

Take Pentax for example. The Japanese camera manufactuer's US HQ is in Denver. In the US, Pentax cameras are manufactuered in Mexico City. That is just one example. I could name several more companies.

I will try to get you the exact numbers tommorow. IM me.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMiami1 From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2291 times:

United Airlines should be looking at starting direct same plane service from Denver to Sydney. the flight could stop in Honolulu maybe or maybe fly non-stop Denver to Auckland New Zealand and continue to Sydney. the US to Australia/New Zealand route is booming with extremely high load factors on Qantas/United and NZ services. Denver would be a popular tourist destination for Australians with the Ski resorts and excellent connections. makes a good change from going thru hideous L.A. .. QF are starting their Sydney-Auckland-Dallas flight end of this year so Im sure United could make Denver to Down Under work.

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2287 times:

DeltaSFO,

I wasn't comparing DEN with Miami, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, or any of the other major cities in the US.

Yes, those cities are extensively served with some 4 or 5 flights a day.

But the market is there for a single non-stop from DEN to MEX. It would work on an A320, possibly the 757 on some days.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2271 times:

BA, If Mexico is Denver's 7th largest trading partner, then what about 1 through 6? We have international service to Canada, England, Germany, and already Mexico.

If there really was money in the route, and the ability to do it, it would've been operating already. Airlines have a fairly good idea (much better than any newspaper does) of where they can make money and where they can't. Airlines don't just sit back and not fly some route that they could make money on. Either they can't make money on DEN-MEX, or the ability (government, fleet, personel, etc) just isn't there. Thats why the City of Denver must offer 1 million to get it to happen.

Denver isn't this huge world class city, nor is the airport...


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2270 times:

I'll agree with BA. DEN-MEX, daily A320, should work. Though it does not surprise me that DEN lacks MEX service, as other larger markets do as well. Just for fun, here are some US-MEX route frequencies:

LAX-MEX: 15 daily
IAH-MEX: 10 daily
MIA-MEX: 10 daily
DFW-MEX: 7 daily
NYC-MEX: 6 daily
SAT-MEX: 2 daily



a.
25 CactusA319 : The "large Hispanic populations" on the East Coast don't consist of very many Mexicans but rather hispanics from the Caribbean and Central/South Amer
26 Post contains images BA : Flyf15, That's one thing you got wrong. Airlines will serve a route if there is enough persuasion to. It happens all the time. Some cities are forgott
27 Mariner : BA: I'm with you. You present an excellent case. Does the million bucks only apply to DEN/MEX? Because I'd love to see Frontier take on a Mexico route
28 BA : Mariner, Right now, Denver is offering $1 million incentives for MEX and CDG service. That's all for now. However, Denver is trying to go after NRT an
29 Flyf15 : BA, why is you automatically assume I am the one that doesn't understand? Airlines do what they do and make the decisions they do because of money, an
30 BA : Regarding Frontier going international. Frontier has said they would like to serve Canada in the future. However this wouldn't happen until 2005. Rega
31 Post contains images BA : Flyf15, BA, why is you automatically assume I am the one that doesn't understand? Airlines do what they do and make the decisions they do because of m
32 TOMASKEMPNER : I think that MX should start MEX-DEN nonstop soon, maybe on a 320 or 319. There is a large demand for DEN nonstops from MEX, mexicans love resorts suc
33 Cx340 : I do think there is a market for DEN-MEX-DEN non-stop. Some opf you have said that there is a business market, and others that it is leisure. I think
34 Post contains links FATFlyer : I found this at the City of Denver. http://www.denvergov.org/admin/template3/forms/MetroDenverExports.doc Rank 1998 Denver Export Totals in US Dollars
35 Post contains images Ghost77 : FATFlyer I think there are no flights between MEX-SAN, because most of the people fly via TIJ, and they just cross the border from TIJ to SAN. Also so
36 JonPaulGeoRngo : Had to add my two cents as well...Michael Boyd is the most over-quoted, windbag with anything having to with airlines and aviation.
37 Post contains images FATFlyer : Thanks Ricardo, I had a brief memory lapse and forgot about TIJ. But the question still remains if Mexico City would be the best choice from Denver, o
38 RogueTrader : If I had the power I would tomorrow institute nonstop service from Denver to all major cities in Mexico, 3 times a day, with 777s. It MIGHT be unprofi
39 Post contains images Latinplane : Mah4546: Orlando does have service to MEX, I don't know whether MX still flies there but AM sure does, in fact during the summer months AM also flies
40 FATFlyer : LatinPlane, Authority has been granted for Mexico service from FAT in the past, however the flights never started. Check the FAA database for more inf
41 JC5280 : BA.... When talking about DIA, you mentioned its, "the 2nd largest in the world in terms of land area. " Whats the first largest? I am curious. Thanks
42 RayChuang : It appears (IMHO) that UA doesn't want to do DEN-MEX because they want to emphasize DEN as a domestic hub. I think that is a huge mistake; what will U
43 JonPaulGeoRngo : You were joking Ray - a B777 or B767 to Mexico from Denver? If its ever flown, it will be a A320 once a day.
44 BA : JC5280, The largest is Riyadh King Fahd Int'l (RUH) in Saudi Arabia. JonPaulGeoRngo, A320 or 757, it depends. I think a 757 is also very possible. I a
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