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Is This ......safe?  
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Take a look at this photo. Is flying a 747 without one engine OK ??. I know you can do ferry flights with a engine out but with the entire engine missing !!!!!!. Just hope one of the other three don't die I guess !

How long a flight is it from Honululu to Oscoda ?


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Norman Gage



P.S. Is it normal to be able to see through the pylon ??

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2898 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

 Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29706 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2704 times:

Thats something that you don't see every day.

I assume it is safe since they got permisson to do it.

This of course as the photographer mentioned isn't a revenue flight. It is a ferry flight.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

You never know what those kind of carriers do.

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

Shouldn't be a problem. Obviously a lot of trim would be needed, but as long as ZFW is kept down, it could loose another engine and still be ok.

User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1633 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't be too comfortable with this if I were onboard...

User currently offlineHkg_clk From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 999 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

That plane looks like it's in poor condition!

What if an engine was out on a twin jet. Could they still do a ferry flight on one engine?



See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

Hkg_clk,

No you can not take off with only one engine, you have to have two working engines to take off.....this is a by memory and its not to good, but I believe that you can not transport passengers without having all engines operational.....again....i remember reading this before?

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

This is Connie Kalitta's son Scott Kalitta's airline. I worked for this outfit for 8 months in LAX, it was my first line maintenance job, 11 years ago.

This airline as well as Kalitta Flying Service is well known to be very unsafe and sub-standard practices are always the norm.

In fact the VP of Maintenance was prosecuted for stealing two Radio Altimeters from an Emery DC-8 many years ago. He stands the only person I have ever known to have his license permanently revoked.

To say the least they are a bottom dwelling cargo airline that will ADHOC any freight, in fact Connie has some landing rights into the most remote regions of the world.

An FAA inspector approached me on the ramp one day and he told me, "If you value your A&P license you better not work for this guy too much longer", he meant well and I quit some time after.

TechRep




User currently offlineKL713 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

hmm...this picture reminds me a little bit of the Bijlmer-disaster with that LY-freighter in Amsterdam in 1992.......


HV/AF/HLN/MP/KL/IB/BA/CX/QF/DJ/DL/FR/GXL/QR/FI/MH 732/733/734/73G/738/742/743/744/752/763/773/319/320/332/333/343/M11/1
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Can anyone give me another case where the same has happened ?. I understood it would be normal to bring the parts in, not fly the plane to the parts.

User currently offlineAdamHarvard From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

This is the very same aircraft that can be seen making a very high-nose-up landing here at A.net:......what is this airline like!


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Torsten Maiwald



User currently offlineDL3744 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

whoa thats not safe at all. i understand planes can go on 1 engine but that just doesnt look right.

User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2357 times:

Glad to say that when N625PL flew for Air Hong Kong I never saw anything like this !!

User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

I don't know enough about engines and pylons to say if that gap in number 3's pylon is normal, but I've searched through the database for simialr pics and can't find any.

Maybe someone on the Tech/Ops forum would enlighten us.



What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24815 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

It does have 4 engines....just that one of them is in the Cabin! Big grin


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineTheiler From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 633 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

Oscoda is in Northern Lower Michigan (I presume that is the "Oscoda" they are talking about). The former Wursmith Air Force base is located there. It's about 130 miles north/northeast of Saginaw.

Pretty long flight with three windmills...


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2246 times:

Hello Dripstick

If you're referring to the gap in #4 engine, this slot allows the thrust reverser sleeve to slide aft during thrust reverser deployment.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

Thanks FDXmech, yes number 4, not 3.

D'Oh! Guess I should look closer at the pic next time.

Thanks for the info.



What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

How long is the runway at Ostend? I never thought 747's could land there. Was this plane loaded with pax? Looks like that landing was hardly a grease !!

User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2326 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Holy cow!! Now this gives new meaning to captains transmission to ATC: "Center: We like to declare an emergency, we just lost an engine...".

Seen five engines under a 747, but only three...
Anyway, if the engine is inoperative for the complete [ferry] flight, why don't just get rid of it... It's only ballast and drag, no use carring it around. Won't be too much of a problem to trim a 747 with one engine missing, especially if its the inboard engine. Several 737 landed safely with an engine fallen off the aircraft...
Lift off might be somewhat of an experiance considering untrimmed rolling moment though...

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

:-l:l (N)
Over my dead body!!!!!
Whatkinda people would fly in that steelcoffin.
The 4th engine looks like its gonna fly on its
own way.......*Jeeezuz*



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1502 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

Well, I guess the question is how much would you ask to be paid to fly on one of that airline's aircraft.









Answer:
About $19,000,000,000.00 (US Dollar)



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineVc10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1397 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2011 times:

All 4 engined aircraft can get clearance to 3-engine ferry aircraft normally to the nearest base where repairs can be carried out. Only the minimum crew can be on board and stringent extra preflight checks have to be carried out. I must say it is more normal to do a 3-engine ferry with all 4 engines attached even if only 3 are working.
This picture jogged my memory and I found a picture in my Lockheed Constellation book of a Pan Am
Constellation 049 back in the late 1940's .It's No 4 engine caught fire in flight and eventually dropped off,and after the aircraft had landed it was decided to remove the rest of the nacelle an fair in the wing. The aircraft was then flown back to Lockheed's factory on the west coast for repairs. I would have included the picture but being an old hydraulic and engine oil man I am not that clever with these electronic things [Sorry]

Regards little vc10


User currently offlineFilejw From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

3 eng on 4 eng a/c and 2 eng on 3 eng a/c are legal with a ferry permit from the FAA.JW

25 Post contains images CVG777 : Wow...
26 ExitRow : This looks to me like the airline version of the guy driving his car around with duct-taped plastic over a missing rear window because he's too cheap
27 Ups763 : Can anyone shed some light on the gap between #4 and the pylon? At least they found the crack in the #3 pylon before it was too late. Matt
28 AAgent : What airline was this again? "Hoopty Airways", perhaps. All in good fun, AAgent
29 Exnonrev : TechRep's post reminds me of something an A&P friend of mine once told me about Kalitta's operation. If the Kalitta family maintained their drag race
30 EE-Kay : OH MY GOD! Reading this thread is very funny!?
31 Climbout : That airplane is a pure mess.
32 Heavymetal : I've toured Oscoda, the former Wurtsmith. It's a proverbial junkyard of planes being stripped...I remember a few ex Eastern 727s and a coupla ex-Briti
33 Cedarjet : "That airplane is a pure mess", "I wouldn't fly with that airline" etc etc. I don't know anything about the airline's reputation but I've never heard
34 Climbout : I wasn't just talking about the engine being off when I said the plane was a pure mess (eventhough that's a factor), I was also referring to the condi
35 Yyz717 : Are you sure it's not just a typical flight on a PIA 742? hehehe
36 Heavymetal : Let me qualify. When I said 'neglect' I meant cleanliness, appearence, and, having spent a lot of time in the area because my folks have a home up the
37 FDXmech : Ups 763 The gap is a slot designed to allow the thrust reverser sleeve to translate aft into the pylon when the thrust reversers are deployed.
38 Jhooper : Sometimes they can't find the duck tape to secure the engine to the pylon, so sometimes they have to fly without an engine. Just kidding.... Seriously
39 PSU.DTW.SCE : Oscoda, MI (OSC) has a rather large airfield from its Air Force base days. The main runway is 11800 x 300 ft. They had a huge fleet of B-52's & KC-135
40 Ups763 : Thanks FDXmech! Matt
41 Iaflyer : tend to look a little rough - why? they aren't washed, like most airliners are. The flying public wouldn't be as happy with a dirty airliner as they w
42 Jon01 : Here is some info on this flight from my friend, the Chief Pilot of Kalitta Air: The maintenance ferry flight itself was conducted on April 26, 1997 f
43 Alaskaairlines : I would never be on a a/c with a missing engine! -Dmitry
44 KL713 : r
45 Aerosol : Is thrust reverser deployed only at two engines during landing?
46 Dc10guy : GREAT PIC !!! freight dogs rule .... This type of flight is the kind that cause's a close bond between pilot and mechanic .... Kalittla, Zantop, TCA,
47 Post contains links and images Boeing727 : This happens ALL the time guys... Click for large versionPhoto © Kris Kjelstrup Click for large versionPhoto © Dietmar Schreiber here is ago
48 Cx flyboy : It's not unusual to see 4 engines aircraft on the ground missing an engine, but flying is much more rare.
49 YoungDon : Simply put, THAT IS NOT COOL... it might be "safe", but really, how many of us would be comfortable piloting that monster, especially over about five
50 Cx flyboy : 3 engine ferry flights are not that rare. When it is done, you have an inop engine out there causing all this drag. It would be better to remove it. I
51 Air2gxs : This is not an engine-out ferry. This is an extremely rare case. The mount system of the #3 pylon was unservicable. Repairs could not be made in the f
52 Post contains images ILOVEA340 : I cpuld just see the pilots breaking the trim tab trying to push it far enough to compensate. thats got to be some ass pilot to fly that plane.
53 CLEfan : Well according to Bill Harms website, N625PL is still in service with Kalitta. The evergreen 747 from anchorage is not so lucky, soon to be broken up
54 Tsentsan : Question: In this scenario, how would the throttle levers react? Would number 3 be in idle position?
55 9V-SVA : It's so dangerous. 9V-SVA
56 FredT : This is what a truly shoddy operation would have done: The crack would have been written down anywhere but in the tech log of the aircraft, the aircra
57 Air2gxs : Yes, the throttle would probably be at idle and not touched thru-out the flight. The pylon/firewall area has probably been sealed aginst airflow. Note
58 Hkgspotter1 : How many carriers would do this do you think ?? I'm almost 100% sure that 99% would ferry the parts in rather then fly the plane to the parts !!
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