Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31811 posts, RR: 72 Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1881 times:
I've said it before and I'll say it again...Delta, please move the BOS-LGW flight to FLL. FLL would be ever grateful, and give you $1M in incentives to top it off. However, from what I hear, BOS-LGW isn't leaving, because if DL wants to grow at BOS, LGW is a key route.
Padcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1856 times:
I had hoped that DL might see some advantage being the sole airline flying BOS-LGW. The $40 Million new terminal is going ahead. New RJ routes from BOS may provide additional feed. If UA continues to lose money one could hope that they might reevaluate their service out of BOS to LHR. They're most likely losing money in this market as well.
MAH, no doubt FLL could support this service. I'm suprised a UK carrier has not done this already. FLL just does not fit into DL's strategic plans as BOS does.
Mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31811 posts, RR: 72 Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1854 times:
Padcrasher, exactly, which is why, bad or good loads, BOS-LGW will probably stay because with DL's plans for BOS it is a key route. No UK carrier has done FLL-LON, but Laker Airways tried FLL-LGW, and did very well, but they had finanical issues and slot isssues with BA, and now they just fly 727s to the Bahammas.
BlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2721 posts, RR: 24 Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1753 times:
I'm with OA on that one; which brings me back to my other question in a way...
Let's say open skies does go through one day before hell freezes over. Will it leave LGW as a charter and short haul low fares airfield, with the majority of long haul going through LHR ?
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6302 posts, RR: 25 Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1753 times:
As its already been said, if DL wants a real presence at BOS they have to have a flight to LGW. LHR would be better but for now LGW will have to do. I would expect DL will run this route at a loss for quite a while hoping that with time they can build it up.
DL has run BOS-LAX for almost two years and the route is still a loser, but DL keeps it because you have to have LAX service if you want to be a real player.
To be fair though, the BOS-LGW route hasn't really had a chance. DL launched it as the US economy was sliding into a recession and then 9/11 happened. I would like to see how this route runs when the economy is at full strength.
Another key is for DL to keep building up feed add SYR/ROC/ALB/BWI/RIC/JAX-BOS with RJ's. These would could help bolster BOS especially routes like SYR-BOS where US is just running props with no int'l connections.
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7268 posts, RR: 14 Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1742 times:
Any US or UK airline having the right to fly LHR-USA, whereas current situation restricts US destinations to around 6 or 7 (?) "areas" with the only permitted airlines being United, American, BA and Virgin. Air India and Kuwait Airways also ply their trade from LHR to the US but started operations before the new Bermuda II regulations came into force.
Arsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 21 Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1745 times:
Open skies is basically an agreement between two countries on free and unrestricted air services from the two respective countries. There are no barriers and a carrier can fly from these countries from any destination at any time without restrictions, i.e Bermuda II.
ContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 14 Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1723 times:
Unfortunately for DL, all the carriers that serve London from Boston use Heathrow, including Virgin, which has moved the flight from LGW. Consequently, with AA, UA, VS, and BA flying to LHR, there is little room for DL and the only way to fill the plane is to discount seats. DL is at a competitive disadvantage not being able to access LHR. I wouldn't be surprised to see the route be dropped.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8825 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1707 times:
Yes, Delta is at a disadvantage vs. VS, BA, AA, and UA, as all four have the valuable LHR slots (which is what the people up front want), while DL has the LGW slots. Yes, to make this route work, Delta will need to provide more feed into the new BOS hub. Right now, we only have connection feed from YUL, PWM, BGR, MYR, and BTV, with YHZ starting in May. By the time the new terminal is built, I see the following routes being served from Boston on Delta:
Connection: JAX (was flown prior to 9/11 with 2x daily CRJ), YYZ, BUF, ALB, SYR, ROC, PIT, ABE, BWI, CMH, CLE (was flown when DL had TSA before ACA).
Mainline: SFO (738/757), SAN (738), SEA (738), LAS (757/767, was flown pre-9/11), PHX (738), FCO (c/s with AZ, getting feed from both sides and Boston's large Italian population), DUB (there are always a lot of people flying BOS-Ireland, both business and leisure), MAN (this is coming straight from Delta), FRA, and CDG (to supplement AF)
However, IF US Airways goes under (which, if their structure does not change, has a good chance to go under, I believe), I feel that Delta and American will come right on in and snap up any left-over pieces, which with US Airways large presence, will enable both carriers to grow more signifigantly into Boston.
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2892 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1680 times:
DeltAirlines, a good observation regarding US, but one wrench could be thrown in the works:
It's pretty well-known that US and United have a codeshare agreement of some sort cooking, and if that happens, I'd expect UA to codeshare on a lot of the most lucrative US routes at BOS, PHL, LGA, and DCA.
When US goes under, if United's codeshare has been successful (and a lot of Mileage Plus Elites and high-fare biz pax are flying the routes), I'd expect United to pay heavily to take over the flying on those routes... so, I don't really see a sure-bet (or even a real chance) for Delta to get its hands on the US carcass at BOS...
BlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2721 posts, RR: 24 Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1673 times:
Lots of welcome info. there.
I'd also been told the same about MAN, but because I've been flamed in the past for mentioning DL and MAN in the same post, I kept quiet.
I don't know if it's the same as you have been told, but my source claims that the daily MAN-JFK-BOS WILL return, but restructured as MAN-BOS-JFK instead and marketed as a non-stop BOS service.
I do believe there is a market and sufficient demand out there for a major Delta BOS operation; perhaps the LGW service was launched just premature to the other development plans DL have for BOS...? Notwithsatnding that, with the benefit of hindsight and from personal work experience, 2001 was a terrible time to launch and invest in any new transatlantic operation.
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6302 posts, RR: 25 Reply 20, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1656 times:
I wouldn't be too sure about a domestic codeshare between UA and US. Pilots groups on both sides are vehemently against it. I could see US joining Star and doing international codeshare...but domestic is a whole nother ballgame.
JFK-BOS-MAN would be an interesting routing...you get a some JFK traffic plus the rest of the BOS traffic and the route might just work.
DeltAirlines, I think your list of cities if right on. The question is...will DL really have the guts to go through with it??? They've committed to the terminal so hopefully they will.
On a side note, it's dissapointing to see that DL still can't make BOS-DCA work. Ol' USAirways still has a little life left in her.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8825 posts, RR: 12 Reply 22, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1617 times:
Currently BOS-IAD is 7x daily FRJ-328 on Delta Connection/ACA. I don't know when DCA will come back though. I think Delta will have the guts to follow through on this expansion, as they will be increasing capacity by 67%, so I don't think they want to hold level. They currently have ~150 daily weekday flights from BOS (incl. extra sessions), so this would amount to a total of 200-225 daily flights. Where to, I don't know yet, maybe more hub service, and maybe some of the aforementioned cities. I would wait until mid-year, when Delta should be back in the black ink, to see a major BOS expansion.
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7268 posts, RR: 14 Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1608 times:
Looks like December was, on the surface, a very good month for bmi - the IAD service again nudged 55% loads and the ORD route looks like it was pretty much three-quarter full as the total traffic on the route almost doubled.