Rp tpa From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 848 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 990 times:
I have the AC timetable downloaded in my computer. The latest update (eff. Mar. 15) shows 2 non-stops in each direction. These are mainline, no idea if Tango has anything in addition to those 2 flights.
MEL From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1092 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 974 times:
Looks like there will be two mainline AC flights, as well as a Tango flight. Mainline flights will be 737-200s, with the odd 319 flight mixed in there. Tango will be on a 737-200. 3 flights a day -- pretty good service if you ask me.
Yow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 970 times:
Yeah according to the online timetable AC is cutting one mainline flight, so that there will only be one mainline and one Tango. But for the month of May, before the Tango flight starts there is only one flight period.
AC will "add" a flight with great fanfare, but not say a word when something is cut. AC was suppose to have two daily YOW-YEG flights but it will still remaing a 1. And in all their brillance they are not adding extra flights from YOW to both YVR and YYC this summer. In fact, AC is cutting capacity on the YOW-YVR route this summer over this winter. Currently there are 2 763s a day, but at this point the peak summer period is showing only 2 762 flights. So for anyone that says a market is always served to its needs, this proves that it's not true. YOW-YVR is a route with a quarter of a million O&D pax a year, not counting thousands of additional connecting pax, but with almost no competition, Air Toronto can do as much YYZ hubbing as it pleases.
FLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4949 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 967 times:
Thank you Andrew,
I definitely know how you feel... but these YYZers dont get it, and gotta bring out the worst in us, in order to get the point...
It is ridiculous, and stupid. Just like Tango saying they will 2 YUL-YHZ flights, well its now only 1 737.... Trust me, we lost our mainline flight to YEG and YWG, and we are 3 times bigger than Ottawa, no offense directed of course.....
I think Air Canada should definitely change its name to Air Toronto...... cuz thats what they really are..
Yow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 964 times:
No offence taken Mark, it's a fact that Montreal is 3 times the size of Ottawa.
But you're right the YYZers just don't get it. If AC cuts the number of YYZ-YVR flights from 13 to 12 nobody cares. But it's a big deal when AC is planning on cutting capacity on a route for the peak summer period over the winter schedule with only 2 flights a day on it. It proves what we have been saying all along.
Yow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 964 times:
Just to further prove our point, back in the days of CP there were up to 6 YOW-YVR AC + CP combined flights a day during the summer months using 319/320s. Now this was probably too much capacity, but you know what I'm getting at.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16111 posts, RR: 57 Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 954 times:
Hey guys.....don't be sore losers. AC puts its aircraft on the routes that make the most $. Clearly, a 13th daily YYZ-YVR is more profitable than a 2nd daily YOW-YVR.
As for AC being called 'Air Toronto'.....you must be joking. The fed govt MANDATES thru the legislated AC Act that AC MUST be HQ'ed in YUL forever.....sounds like discrimination AGAINST Toronto (and the rest of English Canada) to me.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
FLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4949 posts, RR: 52 Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 952 times:
Yup here we go again...
Neil, you'll never get it.... trust me. We're not being sore losers, but it just doesnt make sense... its not about the money.... im sure they are equally as profitable, but you believe most certainly that AC is in the business of making money, but some of the numbers I have collected, and route annoucments/cuts make you believe otherwise...
Samurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2457 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 954 times:
"Unpredictable" is a bit of an understatement as far as AC's timetables are concerned. While AC tries its very best to be Toronto-centric much to the disgust of its customers, other routes have their times and even equipment used changing almost monthly, making flight schedules almost unreliable! The YEG-YYC-YVR is a pretty good example of such a thing.
As I have mentioned in other posts before, I'm supposed to fly YEG-YYC-YOW-YVR-YEG this May. Since I booked the ticket, the flight times and even the equipment used has changed on at least one flight segment! Because I paid only the restricted fare, it might mean I have to pay an extra penalty fee for an itinerary change!!
FLYYUL, I'd agree with you on the name change to Air Toronto!
FLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4949 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 948 times:
Yeah.. Samurai777 I know how you feell... it feels like a roller coaster here at YUL...
You know, are we better off without CP? But in all honesty, these are bad moves for AC...WJ will definitely pick up the pieces, and what will be left for AC, but to then claim unprofitability, and saturation of market..
Ill tell you this much, 22 daily flight to YYC from YYZ is saturation, and 2 from YOW, or 1 from YHZ or even 3 from YUL, is not..... and the number are out there, YYZ demand does not justify 10X more flights, but AC will make you believe this...
Trust me, I flew YUL-YYZ, was on an A330, then an A320, then a B767-300, finally a A321... my row changed from the back, to front, to exit row, now to middle...
Cessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 21 Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 944 times:
I'm sorry to hear that Samurai 777...sick.
You see, I am totally on the other end of the spectrum, as I want as many changes and connections as possible. Why? 'cause I like to changes planes and see other airports...but I'm a freak, not the regular pap. As a result, I have booked myself on WJ YOW-YVR in April with a stop AND a connection on the way to and 3 stops on the way back
My philosophy is that when you fly, or rather, when you are booked to fly nowadays (opposite to the jet- set sixties) you HAVE to give yourself some leeway; meaning more time in case of cancellations, reroutings, misconnections, IROP's etc...today's passenger must recognise that fact. You'll get there faster than the TGV but... bring a good book and quite a collection of CD's. how hard is that?
Yow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 943 times:
Yep here we go again, but let's stop before it goes too far this time.
The facts of routes being or becoming underserved, based on what's published in the schedule at this time speak for themselves. If YVR-YOW was so unprofitable for AC then why would they fly the 2 daily flights with 763s during the winter? Wouldn't they only use 320s or 319s instead? So then dropping them to 762s during the summer, thereby cutting about 60 seats a day from the market at a time when traffic increases, makes no sense whatsoever. I can understand that the 763s need to be deployed on international routes during the summer, but wouldn't it make just a little too much sense to replace that lost capacity and to add a little more for the peak summer season with say an extra 320 flight as has occured in the past ? Not for the AC of the 21st century though.
Tell me something, not counting the heavily business- oriented Rapidair routes and the southern leisure routes, how many AC routes from YYZ, where traffic increases during the summer months, get a cut in capacity during the peak summer period...none right?
AC's Toronto-centrism has nothing to do with language or politics. There are 600,000 Franco-Ontarians in case no one has noticed, and a similar number of anglophone Quebecers.
Yow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 930 times:
WJ's expansion plans for the summer should be coming out any day now. My guess is that YHZ, YYT, and YUL will be added by the end of August along with at least 2 other new destinations in the east. Along with a bunch of new routes annouced from existing destinations.
Lymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1135 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 916 times:
Dan, thanks alot, you've given FLYYUL yet another forum to demonstrate his sheer lack of knowledge of hub and spoke ops. I'm surprised he hasn't brought in the DFW website "load factors" yet...
FLYYUL, in EVERY post you make, you say "trust me"...Ooooh, I get it, we're supposed to second guess AC's management and instead believe "some of the numbers (you) have collected"???? Get me an AC barf bag...
Cap'n Dan From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 896 times:
a) I agree with you, Neil. I'm just a bit jealous. The truth is that there is more demand from YOW than YYZ; AC is not dumb. It really bugs me when people get on Milton's back for losing money and then complain when he cuts unprofitable routes. That said, I'm still from Ottawa and I always love to see more YOW service...
b) Lymanm: "alot" is not a word. You probably meant to write "a lot."