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The Ad Frankfurt-HAHN Is No More For Ryanair  
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

The "Landgericht Köln" court has ruled today, that Ryanair isn't allowed to advertise the airport Hahn as Frankfurt-Hahn anymore. If they continue advertising with Frankfurt-Hahn, they will have to pay 250.000 € for every ad.

Here is the article:

Ryanair unterliegt Lufthansa
Schluss mit "Frankfurt Hahn"


Der irische Billigfluganbieter Ryanair darf in seiner Werbekampagne den Flughafen Hahn im Hunsrück nicht mehr als "Frankfurt-Hahn" bezeichnen. Das Landgericht Köln bestätigte die von der Deutschen Lufthansa erwirkte einstweilige Verfügung des Oberlandesgerichts Köln vom 8. Januar, nach der die Bezeichnung irreführend ist. Der Flughafen Hahn liegt rund 100 Kilometer von Frankfurt am Main entfernt.

Die Bezeichnung suggeriere dem Kunden die Vorstellung, dass der als "Frankfurt-Hahn " bezeichnete Flughafen in unmittelbarer Entfernung zur Stadt Frankfurt am Main liege und mit ähnlicher Anbindung an das Stadtgebiet versehen sei wie der bekannte Flughafen "Frankfurt/Main", schreibt das Gericht in der Urteilsbegründung. Der Verbraucher sei daran gewöhnt, dass im Inland Flughäfen zwecks geografischer Zuordnung den Namen der nächstgelegenen Großstadt führten. Daraus könne geschlossen werden, dass sich der Flugplatz in einer Entfernung zum jeweiligen Stadtgebiet befinde, die die Anreise mit vertretbarem zeitlichen Aufwand ermögliche. Beim Flughafen Hahn sei dies von Frankfurt aus nicht der Fall.

Gegen die Entscheidung des Oberlandesgerichts Köln hatte Ryanair mit der Begründung Widerspruch eingelegt, dass die rheinland-pfälzischen Behörden den Namen "Frankfurt-Hahn" im vergangenen September auch offiziell genehmigt hatten. Lufthansa und die irische Fluglinie streiten sich sei Wochen vor Gericht unter anderem über die vergleichende Werbung von Ryanair. Beide Seiten hatten bereits einstweilige Verfügungen gegen die jeweilige Gegenpartei erwirkt.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Someone could offer a translation, cause the internet free translations don't usually give the right meaning of the article.
Thanks a lot Smile

In any case I think this is a good decision.
But is this sentence ruled only within German, or also for the ad they put on their web site??


User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

They can't use the name 'Frankfurt-Hahn' since HNN is more than 120km apart from FRA, even though the airport uses the same name.
In the future they have to point out the distance between the airport and the city (more than three hours by public transportation and then you still end up 15km away from the airport!).
I wonder if it has any affect on their other airports, like 'Hamburg-Luebeck' as they like to call it! No connection to HAM whatsoever...


User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

funny how the ryanair low ocst alliance in airliners hasnt responded??!!!


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Here we go!! Freestyle translation  Smile

Ryanair looses against Lufthansa
"Frankfurt Hahn" no more

The Irish low-cost carrier Ryanair is no longer allowed to advertize the airport Hahn in the Hunsrueck mountains as "Frankfurt Hahn". The state court Cologne confirmed a sentence of the cologne high court of January 8th, citing that the term "Frankfurt-Hahn" is misleading. The airport is located over 100km away from Frankfurt.

The term suggests for customers that "Frankfurt-Hahn" is an airport in the direct neighbourhood of Frankfurt am Main, having a similar public transportation system connection as the well known airport Frankfurt am Main, the court sentenced in its reasoning.

The consumer is used to associate the name of the domestic airport to the geographically next closest large city. This leads to the judgement that the airport is in a distance to the city area which makes a reasonable long journey to the airport possible. In the case of the airport Hahn this element is not fulfilled.

The next paragraphis only about the history of the FR-LH clashes, we all know it, thus I leave it out.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

FR looses
SURPRISE SURPRISE!
wonder how FR will react!
Will they accept it?
They need to otherwise it will cost MOL a lot of money.
Wonder how the booking rate will react a lot of people still don't know where Hahn is!
great Victory for LH


User currently offlineLapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1565 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

Much as I dislike Ryanair, they did not name the airport! It was named Frankfurt-Hahn long before FR even decided to fly there!

Matt


User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

It's still on their website Big grin


User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

After all this silly we-don't-like-Ryanair-let's-sue-them, I think everybody knows where Hahn is located.

Does anybody remember German Wings? It was just the same! German Wings was an all-business airline, Ryanair is a low-cost. It seems like LH really fears the competition with airlines from another market. Btw, what happened to the Burda(?)-brothers?

Why can't LH accept that there are some people who want to fly cheap, no matter if departing from FRA or HHN! It has nothing to do with the term "Frankfurt-Hahn" or "Hahn-Frankfurt" or whatever. I know where HHN is located and I will keep on flying FR. Btw, at BOH airport I saw an ad "Bournemouth-Frankfurt 15GBP"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards, Ndebele (member of the "Ryanair low cost alliance in airliners"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4003 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

"Btw, at BOH airport I saw an ad "Bournemouth-Frankfurt 15GBP"

Advertising in England = English competition law

"It was named Frankfurt-Hahn long before FR even decided to fly there!"

A name is a name is a name is a name. You can call a piece of tarmac whatever you like. The question is how you can use the name you have invented for advertising. That exactly what the court referred to. It did not doubt that the "official name" is Frankfurt-Hahn. But if the "official name" is misleading, you need to clarify. That's what Ryanair has not done.

"I think everybody knows where Hahn is located"

No, absolutely not. I flew with them HHN-BGY last Friday and when I mentioned it while out for lunch with six colleagues on monday, none of them had the faintest idea where Hahn is - and they do read broadsheets, rest assured.

"It's still on their website"

The ruling has to be delivered to them officially before they have to comply. I am pretty sure that Ryanair will appeal against the decision anyway.


User currently offlineJonPaulGeoRngo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Ryanair won't even consider this a setback, in the grand scheme of things.

It knows dinosaurs like LH are cowering, sweating and resorting to hollow victories in the courts to justifiy their high costs. The traveling public is sick of being gouged by flying cranes, shamrocks and waving Union Jacks.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

Look how much free publicity the flights to Hahn have got over the recent weeks. O'Leary must be laughing his ass off.

User currently offlineKarliboy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

it's about time LH got some REAL competition!! FR and the other low-cost airlines (Go and Easyjet) have walked all over a lot of other UK airlines...high time LH discovered what it feels like to have FR yapping at its heels. They've had a monopoly for far too long!


Karl


User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

Karliboy:

Depends if you prefer to travel with a PLANE or with a dirty old bus full of stickers!


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4003 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

What can I say - I guess that's Ryanair-style :-o

RYANAIR WELCOMES GERMAN COURT DECISION CONFIRMING THE USE OF FRANKFURT-HAHN NAME SUBJECT TO CLARIFICATION OF ITS LOCATION IN OUR ADVERTISING

Ryanair, Germany’s largest low fares airline today welcomed the further clarification of the Cologne Court which has confirmed that it is permissible to use the legal name of Frankfurt-Hahn Airport, subject to Ryanair’s adverts providing adequate clarification to consumers of the location of the airport and the means of connection to/from Frankfurt. Ryanair confirmed that it has written to the German Court in order to reach agreement on these further points of clarification.

Speaking today on learning of the German Court’s decision, Ryanair’s Chief Executive, Michael O’Leary said;

“We welcome this decision from the German Courts which confirms once and for all that we are free to call Frankfurt-Hahn Airport by its legal name. We welcome the guidance of the Court in seeking to provide German consumers and visitors with as much clarity as is necessary as to the location of the airport and the ease of connecting between it and the city of Frankfurt.

“All of this information and detail has been contained on our website at www.RYANAIR.COM through which more than 90% of all Ryanair’s bookings are taken. We have now written to the Court seeking their guidance as to how we best communicate these issues in the form of reasonably understandable advertising in our German advertising.

“Frankfurt-Hahn Airport is now the fastest growing airport in German if not in Europe. German consumers and visitors are now using it in ever increasing numbers. With the successful launch of seven new routes at the airport on the 14th February last, traffic numbers now exceed 100,000 passengers a month, or more than 1 million passengers a year. It is clear from this success that German consumers are in no way confused as to the location of Frankfurt-Hahn Airport, and equally visitors to Frankfurt-Hahn find it a convenient, uncongested and simple means of accessing not just the city of Frankfurt but the greater Frankfurt region as well.

“To celebrate the positive outcome of this case today Ryanair announced its lowest ever seat sale across the ten routes it operates from Frankfurt-Hahn Airport, with more than 100,000 seats on sale for travel over the next four weeks at a fare of €9 one way. Clearly seats at these incredible prices will sell out quickly, so we urge everyone to book them straight away at www.RYANAIR.COM”.



User currently offlineKarliboy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

since when have 738's been buses?


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

I really want to now what stuff O'leary smokes. It makes everything look positive  Big grin

User currently offlinePlaneguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Court decisions aside, here are some questions for those of you in Germany: How has the German traveling public reacted to Ryanair? Has this carrier been well received? Also, how have their loads been since they opened their Hahn hub? Have they been successful at that airport?

User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

Planeguy:
I've been on Ryanair HHN-BOH-HHN last week. As you can read in my trip report, about 80% of the passengers on both flights were British, only the minority were German.


User currently offlinePatroni From Luxembourg, joined Aug 1999, 1403 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

Wow, seems it is a party day today for our LH cheerleaders here in the forum  Big grin

Actually, I flew Ryanair for the first time last weekend and was absolutely positively surprised by the two flights from Frankfurt-120km-Hahn to Bournemouth and back!

The aircraft on both ways was EI-CSR, a 3 month old 737-800 which offered a surprisingly generous legroom (much more than TAP Air Portgual which I had to suffer in January..). Parking at the terminal in HHN was convenient and for free; according to the cars numberplates the people came from all over Western and Southern Germany, plus some from Luxembourg and France. However I did not see and car from frankfurt (well, who cares about FRA anyway ?  Wink/being sarcastic) . Check in was done very quick, the flights went absolutely on time, even arrived early. The flight crew was very friendly and helpful and you felt the enthousiasm of building something new in German air transport.
The flights were about 95% full on the way to Bournemouth, on the way back we had a load factor of maybe 80%, not bad for an airline that departs from an airport which "nobody knows".
The passengers were by far not all the rucksack hitchhiker type which many people expect. It was merely a nice mixture of business people, travelling families and other people; the atmosphere on board was friendly and relaxed.

So - I was so impressed that I will go on my next Ryanair flight tomorrow, from HHN to Bergamo and back... one day Italy for 18.57 Euro....

On a side note, the FR flights brought me even LH Frequent Flyer Miles.... I simply paid them with my LH credit card Big grin

Go Ryanair! I am looking forward for your next destinations ex HHN, and I couldn't care less if you call the airport Hahn, Frankfurt, Paris or Rpfglzmnzrqtz....


User currently offlineRogueTrader From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

This ruling shows that, EU rhetoric to the contrary, individual states in the EU really don't want competitors from other countries competing on their home turf.

kind regards,

RogueTrader


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21462 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

RogueTrader: This ruling shows that, EU rhetoric to the contrary, individual states in the EU really don't want competitors from other countries competing on their home turf.

Yeah, we all know the EU is EVIL and filled with untrustworthy individuals.  Wink/being sarcastic

But apart from that, it was an independent german court which made a decision based on fair competition laws. Much like deciding on a complaint about some toothpaste commerial.

"Frankfurt"-Hahn indeed has quite a bit of political backing from the state government of Rheinland-Pfalz which competes with the Hessen government where FRA is located.

So was there anything else?


User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

Ironically, both FRA and HHN belong to Fraport Airport Authority  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

RogueTrader,

The fact that the EU allows its carriers to be owned by any interested party/parties from other member states, as well as allowing those airlines to base themselves anywhere in the EU (and effectively fly from anywhere to anywhere, within the EU) rather reflects the trend of liberalisation in this region of the world.

Ryanair, buzz and Easyjet have all taken advantage of this by basing their a/c in various different countries; sometimes this can cause opposition from those parties who feel threatened (read: Lufthansa v Ryanair).

However, you are right to imply that European governments will sometimes thwart such moves in the interests of politics or perceived benevolence (especially countries with socialist-leaning policies such as France).

You must remember also that America can and does prevent active competition from taking place with its own goods and services; whether thats right or wrong I don't know, but they do it too!

Regards


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