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Will BA Ever Buy/Lease Airbus Long Haul Aircraft?  
User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Will British Airways ever buy airbus aircraft for its long haul fleet? The A380, is a fantastic plane and would fit right into the fleet on routes to America, asia, e.t.c. I dont think they should get the 747QLR, the A380 will become the new flagship of the skies for many airlines,a nd i dont know how BA could possibly not have it as part of their fleet especially with the congestion at LHR, although the 747 i think will always be queen of the skies.
The A330/40 family is a fantastic family, and with the new members to the A340 family, the A345 and A346, i really think they could work in the BA fleet.
I have never understood why BA always buys boeing planes, when BAE systems which is based in the uk owns 20% of Airbus. Surely BA would at least want to help their own economy strive, which could benefit it in the long run.
but obviously BA is a business set out to make a profit and they will do so in a way that they see fit, and buying the best planes that fit their needs at the time.
Anyway, is it very likely for us to see the A380, or A340/A330 family in the BA fleet within the next 5 years or so? I think they would look fantastic in their livery. Do u think the airbus products would fit into BA in general.
i am in no way anti boeing, so please do not turn this into A v. B., and if you have any comments that are innaproprate- then please refrain from posting them.


Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

i am in no way anti boeing riiiiight.

Well it seems they should buy Airbus cos they're so much better, doesn't it? My comments aren't innappropiate, only pointing out that the reasons you give for BA to buy Airbus are a bit stupid.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

BA doesn't need long range Airbus aircraft. Their 763/772/744 satisfy their needs. BA is an independent company......they are not in business to buy BAe products.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

i am not anti-boeing, maybe a little biased by my geographic location, but i want both companies to do well, but i do think the A380 is the next big thing in the airline industry and anyone who is not seen with it, will not be percieved as an innovative airline, wanting the best for their custormers with the latest cutting edge technology.
the same goes for sonic cruiser, but in this thread i am interested in the airbus family.
My favourite plane is the 757!!!



Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3276 times:

yes Yyz, i did mention that BA would but aircraft that suited them best for their needs, but does that rule out a chance of having airbus long haul a/c in the fleet within in the next 5 years or so?


Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

So they should get the A380 because "the A380 is the next big thing in the airline industry and anyone who is not seen with it, will not be percieved as an innovative airline, wanting the best for their custormers with the latest cutting edge technology. "

 Insane

So nothing to do with route-structure, load/future load figures, BA's financial status, company objectives etc?


User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

i dont want to argue, and i know this is a controversial subject, which is why i added the sentance at the end.
and i would rather it be deleted than turned into 'your anti-boeing' and whatever else.
i would like to see the A380 in the BA fleet, what are the realistic chances???



Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

777236ER i did also ask in the opening post of the thread whether any of these aircraft would fit in their current fleet


Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3248 times:

BA has chosen the 777 and the 747-400 for their long-haul requirements so an order for A330/A340 is unlikely to happen. The A380 will probably be an option if a larger aircraft is required in the future.


Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

but surely the congestion at LHR would influence their decision? i suppose they could get bigger varients of the 777 or even the 747QLR


Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3235 times:
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There's a really slim chance that BA could buy A330's replace the 763's for their european short haul and thin long haul routes. But the A330 might be too big to operate on euro routes, but it's a big if. BA would like a long haul boeing fleet and a short haul airbus fleet.

So, who knows? Maybe there could be a widebody bus in BA's fleet, but these are big if's again.

Arsenal@LHR



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

Ammunition:

"image" and "cutting edge technology" were much larger factors in the regulated days when the 747 came out. In addition, at that time, the 747 was a true quantum leap ahead of the 707 and DC-8.

That said, for many airlines, when introduced, the 747 was simply overkill. Various airlines that jumped onto the 747 bandwagon to have the right image lost money on them.

In todays world, people have shown to interested in price and service, and not in "leading edge" especially if, but the nature of losing money, prices have to be higher.

Aviation has become dominated by precisely fitted niche aircraft. The A380 fills a specific niche. At the current time, it appears BA doesn't feel any of it's routes qualify for that niche.

Steve


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13159 posts, RR: 78
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

There are no plans now, but don't be surprised to see the A380 with BA later in this decade, 2008-12 period.
The 744's will need replacement, some of that will be with 777's probably, but air travel will expand again, recently BA have had to turn away pax on N.Atlantic routes, and at work many are having trouble getting their concessional travel to many other places due to full aircraft.
Right now the problem is with the yields.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Why BA did not order the A380? They sure have the load and routes to fill them. Mumbai, New Delhi, Johannesburg, Capetown, Hong Kong, Lagos, and the Australian routes (Qantas already has the A380 on order) all cross my mind. Not to mention the bad performing trans atlantic market, wich might get better any day. I guess BA would love to have them in their fleet, but they simply dont have the money to order some IMO. If things get better at BA chances are more realistic that they will fly the A380 in the future. Note that Cathay Pacific (still waiting for their A380 order) and Emirates have a mixed fleet of A330/340 and 777 aircraft, both very profitable airlines. Operating the 777 does not mean that the A330/340 is out of order to BA. Who had guessed some years ago that BA would swap their 737 and 757 fleet for the Airbus A320 series? Something nice to look forward to is the A318 going into service with BA.


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User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24899 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

To be honest, I wouldnt think so.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

BA focuses primarily on the business traveller, far more than most transatlantic carriers. This means frequency. Hence BA is more likely to service LHR-BOS for instance in 5 years with 4x daily 772's than 2x daily A380's.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineRogueTrader From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3189 times:

I think one thing that should be considered in this discussion is the precarious political situation where BA resides. BA, and the UK in general, are much more closely tied to the USA than the other European airlines and countries. I don't think another European carrier serves even half the number of N.American routes as BA.

The 330/340 probaby could find a place in the BA fleet, and maybe the A380 as well.

However, BA and the UK often try to position themselves as the bridge between the USA and Europe. In many ways they are.

So, BA would not want to risk what has traditionally been its primary profit center (N.Atlantic longhaul) and its reliance on the goodwill of the US gov't and American travellers. It would risk upsetting people on this side of the Atlantic if BA were to develop a favoritism for Airbus.

Furthermore, BA is in a diffiuclt situation with the US where the open skies arrangements are concerned. If BA all of the sudden started buying all Airbus, this might piss-off US regulators even more than their current stranglehold at LHR.

Its better, from a PR and political point of view, if BA tries to keep something like an even mix as between A & B products.

A side note: many of the A380s orders were placed, in my opinion, precisely because of the deadlock at LHR. Without this key problem at a key airport, I imagine the A380 would only have about half of its orders, mainly from its politically oriented carriers in its home countries: Air France and Lufthansa.

kind regards,

RogueTrader


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

BA could probabarly fill about 3 A380s to Bombay each day right now.The point is the yields would be utter crap.As someone else mentioned,BA are concentrating on the business travellers where the good yields come from.

So, BA would not want to risk what has traditionally been its primary profit center (N.Atlantic longhaul) and its reliance on the goodwill of the US gov't and American travellers. It would risk upsetting people on this side of the Atlantic if BA were to develop a favoritism for Airbus

Do most people know what plane they are on?I doubt it


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13159 posts, RR: 78
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3162 times:

First and Business are full too, but there is lots of discounting going on.
Hence the yield problem, which is slowly improving.


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3161 times:

There seems to be a thing amongst Euro carriers to carry more and more people.BA are the one who of the few who have gone the other way and reduced capacity.Its a good move IMO for the long term.

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3158 times:

I read an article about the strategy of BA. The airline's CEO mentioned that BA was not interested in the A380 as this aircraft is too big for BA and does not fit in with BA's long term strategy which focuses on adding more frequencies rather than adding more capacity. BA indicated they were interested in replacing their 747 fleet with more 777's, including the 777-300. This again shows their interest in increasing frequencies rather than ordering larger aircraft such as the A380. Even though BA also participated in the development of the A380 they have not shown any interest as of yet. They may have a need for such an aircraft in the much longer term (after 2010 maybe). I don't think we will see an A380 order from BA in the near future.

As for the A380 being the new flagship of the skies for many airlines, I don't think so. Even though I like Airbus aircraft, I do think the A380 is an aircraft that is developed for the niche airlines. I don't think we will see as many airlines flying the A380 in the future like the number of airlines flying the 747 at present. The A380 is just too expensive and too big for them. I do hope that more airlines will order the A380 besides the "expected" ones, such as SIA, Qantas, Emirates, AF, LH but I think their will not be much more airlines ordering the A380 besides the ones who already have placed orders for the A380. These airlines may buy more A380's in the future. I think Cathay Pacific Airways and possibly Japan Air Lines will join the other A380 customers. US airlines may also order the A380 although I think this is not likely to happen any time soon. Many US airlines have already made up their future requirements which primarily focus on the 777 as the new flagship for most of the biggest airlines in the US. UAL and NWA are the only airlines which could become potential A380 operators in the future. AA, DL and CO have already built their long-haul fleet around the 777/767 combination. I don't see these airlines operating any Airbus aircraft types. The 777 seems to be the most favourite aircraft type with US airlines for their long-haul operations.


User currently offlineAamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1057 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3156 times:

BA will ahve some Airbus widebodies soon (within 10 years i reckon) but i dont think they will be A380s and i dont think they will cross the atlantic.
The 330s are touted as replacements for the 763s which are leaving the fleet (slowly, and maybe being sold to the RAF as tankers etc.) on Euro routes.

As for an A380 order.... i say 20 years from now and there may be some in the Fleet.
But as for other airnus wides... i think maybe the 330 for EU routes and thats it.

If London gets a new airport any time soon, where capacity can increase montly (a big new airport just out of London with good rail / road links etc) then the A380 wont be needed (but it will be used by airlines who want to be seen supproting European Goverments and manufacturing, the French and Germans only)


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3134 times:

.... the A380 wont be needed (but it will be used who want to be seen supproting European Governements and manufacturing).

AAmd11,

Apart from bad (if you're not a native English speaker, excuse me) writing this sentence makes also no sense on the contet of it. Qantas, SIA, Emirates, Qatar Airways are all based in France or Germany? Thanks for the update, last time I checked they were not.

Also, both Lufthansa and Air France operate a large fleet of Boeing aircraft, the latter one still has some 777-300 on order. I suppose they only ordered them because they want to support the US manufacturers, right?



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User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3089 times:

RogueTrader,

if you say Lufthansa and Air France order Airbus planes because they want to support their local economy...

How would Boeing look without the huuuge Boeing fleets of all the US Airlines ? Without UA, AA, Delta, Continental etc. ?

Please answer, thanks.


User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

aamd11?

the A380 wont be needed (but it will be used by airlines who want to be seen supproting European Goverments and manufacturing, the French and Germans only)

Yeah, sure  Insane
What are you studying, a MBA (Master in Bashing Airbus)? Big grin
Thanks to Singapore, Atlas and Qantas to support our governments and manufacturing by the way Big grin



Falcon....like a limo but with wings
25 Donder10 : The reason I dont think BA will order the 330 is that they are downsizing in Europe from the 757 at LHR to 320 and 319. Alex
26 Dutchjet : Firstly, I think that most airliner decisions at this point on time are based on economics, delivery schedules and the airplane itself and not to supp
27 RogueTrader : Racko, How would Boeing look without the huuuge Boeing fleets of all the US Airlines ? Without UA, AA, Delta, Continental etc. ? I assume Boeing would
28 RogueTrader : Racko, How would Boeing look without the huuuge Boeing fleets of all the US Airlines ? Without UA, AA, Delta, Continental etc. ? I assume Boeing would
29 Udo : Oh, since "airlines just order the A380 or Airbus at all just because they want to support their local indutries" then I must ask: Do Australia, the U
30 Arsenal@LHR : Airlines don't really give a crap who they're buying from, as long as it suits their requirements, reduce costs and generally economical. United was s
31 Racko : RogueTrader, do you have any sources to prove "your opinion" ? The A380 offers 20% less costs per seat, and AF & LH have routes to fill a plane with o
32 9V-SVE : The A330/A340 will never get into BA's fleet. They only compete with the 777 and BA is extremely happy with them. I imagine in the end they will keep
33 Ammunition : im also sick of airbus bashing, its ok for some/most?!?! americans/anti-airbus people/pro-boeing people to question whether an all airbus or majority
34 RogueTrader : Racko, If you want to talk about the place of the A380 in LH and AF's fleet, either email me or start a new thread on that topic. My point, in line wi
35 Donder10 : Bigger planes=generally lower yields.
36 Thumper : Hey Ammunition and Racko it took a while but we knew sooner or later your true anti-american anti- Boeing feelings would come out! Stop trying to hide
37 Ammunition : Thumper- get a life!!! Im not even gonna begin to explain myself to you.... its quite evident you have not read any of my posts, you are probably the
38 Racko : Thumper, the only really dump post in this thread i've seen is yours...
39 Scorpio : From Thumper's profile: Age: 56-65. Boy, demention's afunny thing when it hits you, isn't it?
40 Manni : Thumper, You've beaten AAmd11. Now your post is the dumbest in this treath.
41 777236ER : Bit a hypocracy there, Ammunition and Racko. Boeing-bashers are just as bad.
42 N79969 : I don't think BA will switch anytime soon because the Boeings perform the job extremely well and the costs associated with a Airbus fleet change/augme
43 Aamd11 : I know not all the airlines are from Europe, but some do need capacity increase... i dont think LH or AF do particularly... that was my point. I dont
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