Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Minneapolis MSP And KLM  
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5522 posts, RR: 17
Posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1687 times:

Will KLM resume service in the future to MSP from AMS? I'd really like to see another 747-400 here as well as another International airline besides Icelandair and Air Canada! So will I ever see the KLM 747-400 land in MSP in the future? Are there any plans for a summer/winter schedule?

Continental

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1619 times:

This summers schedule will see 2 NW 747-200s to AMS. Last year KLM had 747 service, but the 2 airlines will put their resources where it best benefits the bottom line. Perhaps KLM is better suited to alloace a 747 on a more lucrative route that they can serve. THis doesn't mean though, that KLM will never return to MSP. KLM is returning this summer with an MD11 to DTW after a several year absence.

NW isn't stopping any foreign carrier from arriving in MSP... they'll just protect their turf and business though.


AZJ


User currently offlineZeus01 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1572 times:

NW may not be stopping new foriegn carrier from entering MSP, but they sure as hell influence MAC to stop them.
Everyone knows theres a probelm there with NW's little monopoly. I love NW as much as anyone, but I really wish thed stop squishing competition that helps lower fares. MSP pays some of the highest fares in the country, plus with NW owning 76% of the gates there and more coming, other carriers can't get in (Alaska, Midwest, SW-which all have applied). MAC seems to make up little excuses about why there is a lack of carriers here, but the media and the DOT have proven theres other reasons. Wonder why BA and LH couldn't get access when the applied with the DOT and MAC for gates?
AZ, whats your take on on MSP?


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1564 times:

I say that Msp is no different than any other mega hub that other airlines operate out of. I guess I am a true capitalist and firmly believe in survival of the fittest. If they can't compete against NW, then that's not NW's fault. It boils down to a business... Also, NW doesn't have a monopoly by any means... are there other carriers there? Yes is the answer... therefore no monopoly.


AZJ


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

Midwest recently has entered the market via Skyway Airlines, which offers 4 daily flights to MKE.

I've never heard of SW applying... there's plenty of room for them if they wanted it at the brand new Humphrey Terminal.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineZeus01 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

SW did apply in 1999 according to MAC's website, but it didn't say why they never went through. NBC affiliate in MSP claimed it was NW's fault since NW would simply drive them out eventually.
Sorry AZ, I meant Monopolistic Competition, not a monopoly. Yes, theres lots of other airlines there, but many of whom have been there for a long time. I know AA holds the next largest ammount of gates, then UA, DL, and CO. I know also, AA tried to get gates on the concourse G, where all internationals are and the only non NW carrier on that concourse is Iceland Air (or is Air Canada there?) There may be competition in MSP, but is very slim and I know NW has a pretty sweet deal with MAC.




Any one heard about progress with BMI's application? Can't find anything on the net about it, but I know they applied a few months ago for service from manchester I think.




User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Let's not forget that MSp may not be exactly the most attractive O & D market for carriers such as BMI or LH. True, there are many fortune 500 companies and a large population of people based here, but NW really feeds MSP for connecting flights as well.

Zeus, you'll learn to take everything the media says about aviation with a grain of salt. They aren't aviation professionals and have no idea what they're reporting. They just see MSP as a huge hub for NW and cry monopolistic competition.

You don't think DL or AA or AS or any other carrier is going to defend their home turf the way NW does? Look into the stronghold US has over CLT, PHL and PIT... then people can complain about NW in MSP, DTW and MEM. There have been numerous studies that prove the "hub premium" is false.

Southwest seems to be doing well in DTW, where NW is the driving force.. why not MSP? It just doesn't add up.


AZJ


User currently offlineZeus01 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

AZ:

Is all Im saying is that from what Ive seen with NW actions and their trends, it just show a little how NW operates. Other Airlines may defend their hubs, but theres no doubt about problems at MSP. Even MAC had admitted it that there is a problem attracting carriers due to NW. Remeber, NW holds more gates at one single airport than any single other airline at their hub.
NOW, NO I DON"T trust the media, but I was just making a statement. The media I think is the last place for honest info.


By the way, how often do you fly to MSP, or do you?


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

I am in MSP quite frequently actually... as I am in DTW and MEM as well. NW plays hardball when it comes to business... it always has. You better believe that DL, AA and UA will play the same game when it comes to defending their hubs. While some see it as being like a bully, many see it as simply doing business.

An example is back in the day when Reno Air was still alive and they announced service to MSP. Clearly this was to compete with the NW service to Reno. They should have known better than to compete with a giant like NW. Northwest counter acted by creating service to RNO from LAX, SFO and SEA and maybe SAN. When it all hit the fan, NW was forced to retreat from those so called predatory tactics and when it all settled down, Reno Air struggled in the MSP market and eventually pulled the plug on that route.

Many airlines have proved that they can coexist in mega hubs like MSP. There is no real reason that any airline would want to expand their services by a large amount in any airlines home turf. It would make no snese for AA to start Europe or Asia service out of MSP, nor would it make sense for NW to start a Latin America operation from MIA or DFW.

The point is that if they have the resources, they can compete. If they can't, it boils down to the winning and losing in business. Survival of the fittest.



AZJ


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

SW is supposed to increase flights out of DTW when the new terminal is built for the non NW companies.

I was surprised the other day at DTW to see a line up of six planes in a row for take off that did not have red tails getting ready to take off on 3L... all in a row I saw Southwest 73G, Delta 762, Spirit MD80, AA F100, United Ex CRJ, and Delta MD80. I thought for sure that there would be some red tails in that line up, but they actually were all lined up for 4R


User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

Air Canada uses one of the United gates in MSP. No need to clear US customs upon arrival as this is done at Toronto Airport after check-in.

User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5522 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1433 times:

NWA does have a monopoly. Look at other airports dominated by airlines. Eg. Newark, Continental owns a majority of the gates, but still a lot of other airlines operate into EWR!

Continental


User currently offlineZeus01 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1426 times:

Its not a monopoly, though it is monopolistic competition. Big difference.
personally, I still think NW holds a extremely tight grasp on MSP that is far tighter than say UA and AA at ORD. I still havn't found a airline that has connection like NW does in Minnesota. No one has a more powerful lobby at MAC than NW.


User currently offlineAcidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1875 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1407 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I wouldn't be surprised to see what kind of money is slipped under the table to the MAC folks by NW...


Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1395 times:

You have to remember that New York and Chicago have a MUCH larger population base and therefore more O & D traffic demand. This will drive the competition as well. It just wouldn't make sense for any of the toehr airlines out there to serve any other city other than their own hubs from MSP. The point to point carriers like Southwest, are the only ones really able to spread their wings in hub cities like MSP.

Look at the stronghold that DL has in SLC, ATL and CVG. Look at PIT, PHL and CLT with US. DFW with AA. Not much different than NW and DTW, MSP and MEM.

I won't buy the monopoly theory in MSP Continental. And while I don't think I'd call it monopolistic competition either, NW is definitely protective and of its turf and is a very harsh business to deal with.

AZJ

AZJ


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Fokker And KLM posted Mon Oct 16 2006 16:40:49 by Aviopic
Air France And KLM Increase SJO Based Staff posted Fri Sep 15 2006 02:04:07 by LTU932
MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger posted Tue Jul 18 2006 17:33:42 by Incitatus
MSP And Low Cost Carriers... posted Sun Jan 22 2006 02:48:31 by Jerion
SAS And KLM In Near Collision posted Sun Jan 8 2006 12:36:38 by CPH757
HP And KLM? Saw It At OAK. posted Mon Jan 3 2005 22:08:39 by Byrdluvs747
AC And KLM Delays - YYZ And YUL posted Sat Oct 9 2004 23:02:42 by BFS
Ramp/Operations Frequencies At MSP And DEN posted Tue Jul 20 2004 06:41:49 by Venuscat2
MSP And DTW posted Fri Jun 25 2004 04:48:52 by Jetranger2000
MSP-AMS KLM posted Fri May 14 2004 07:18:22 by LAS757300