Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Fairchild Bankruptcy Filing Imminent?  
User currently offlineJonPaulGeoRngo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1573 times:

San Antonio paper is reporting...
http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=110&xlc=654655&xld=110

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1436 times:

No speculations please, the report speaks for itself!
Let's wait and trink some tea...


User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

Not only Chapter 11 but many jobs will be cut as well.

TechRep


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

If Fairchild goes under, the value of the 228s, 328s, 328Jets etc will drop like a stone - remember Fokker!

I thought Boeing was buying them??


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1374 times:

Rumours are that Boeing wants to wait till they fill Bankruptcy and then pick out the good pieces (728 project) without the 328s. That would mean many many lost jobs...

I really hope this is just a rumour and Boeing isn't behaving that way.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1357 times:

Once again, people go bankrupt, businesses go insolvent. Chapter 11 is not bankruptcy.

User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1352 times:

Whats so wrong with Boeing waiting for Fairchild to go insolvent?Its just business sense.I wish AC had done the same now with CP.

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

Oh boo hoo people. Boeing must be delighted now, they can get FaiDor at a fraction of the price. This is business, this isn't some lovely ickle fake realitity where everyone wants to get along and every company makes profits.

User currently offlineAamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1061 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1331 times:

They may wait (i think if they go for Chapter 11 then Boeing will buy em / parts of 'em), but if they do, why would they not pick up the 328 project??


User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1301 times:

777236ER - I think you will find Chapter 11 is bankrupcy. It basically means that the company is unable to pay its creditors, which of course means they can move to have the company liquidated to recover their money. So the company files for court protection from its creditors while it reorganises to become solvent once more, under the guidlines of Chapter 11 of the US Bankrupcy Code (thats what it is called, correct?)

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

It may be called bankruptcy, but it's a slang term. Chapter 11 isn't bankruptcy. It's chapter 11 of the US Bankruptcy Code, which covers all financial problems, from sole traders through to multi-nationals. Companies cannot go bankrupt.

User currently offlineClipper471 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1269 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Chapter 11 - reorganization
Chapter 7 - liquidation

777236ER, both are bankruptcy.


User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5301 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1241 times:

Hello,

Damn, that is simply terrible news! I never realised that an investor was so urgent. But what exactly went wrong? Lack of orders?

Jeremiah



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1218 times:

1. Lack of orders after Sep 11th, many decisions were postponed by at least 6 months

2. High than anticipated development costs for the 728 family

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1187 times:

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at Bombardier ........


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1159 times:

There is a lot more to this Chapter 11 then anyone or I are being told. This Chapter 11 must coincide with some sort or reorganization plan to appease the new partner. My theory is the Strategic Partner has already made a handshake agreement but until some internal restructuring is complied with no LOI (Letter Of Intent) will be signed.

Who the new partner is, is unclear and will remain unclear until it is announced. Raytheon and Boeing were both potential partners with reports that Boeing offered $2BN for CDR and alliance partners interest in FD.

I think the media is being fed false information on purpose due to some initial speculation from the industry, which could have some definite stock effect to the potential buyer.

Folks wait and see what happens, at this point and time I do not think you will hear any accurate news until the new partner officially announces it.

Whatever the result, it will be difficult to speculate. If the buyout partner is an American company it will surely generate Anti-trust suits from Embraer and bombardier immediately and possibly EU hurdles. Therefore an all together buyout I do not think will happen, a strategic partner is less of a hassle for both parties.

My thought is regardless of whom the partner is there will be some kind of deterrent to this merger for obvious reasons. One less competitor in the Regional market is advantageous to Embraer and Bombardier and they will make every attempt to block anything that will keep FD solvent and competitive.

TechRep


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1128 times:

I think Boeing will probably not buy Fairchild-Dornier outright, but may hold more like a 35-40% stake in the company.

By the way, I think EU may not object to Boeing buying F-D even if Embraer complains because after all, Embraer is heavily owned by the Brazilian government.

Why do I keep on thinking of the possibility that Boeing might be just seriously considering using the former McDonnell-Douglas production line in Long Beach, CA to build the F-D 928-100/200?


User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1106 times:

In order for Boeing to become a majority partner they will need to invest 75% and buy out CDR and Alliance Partners. A meager 35-40% will not be enough and there is no way the production will be moved to Long Beach. The German labor union is strong and this is an election year this will not be allowed by the EU I guarantee.

BTW Embraer is in Brazil and the majority partner is not a foreign company, that’s a totally different scenario or apples to oranges.

TechRep




User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1091 times:

Lets face facts....these aeroplanes, indeed the whole project was a pipe dream from the beginning and should never have been started. There are ALREADY enough regional jet programs underway, so this one was a COMPLETE waste of time.
Suspect in the end it will fold. Too little...much too late.


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1060 times:

411A: you´re dead wrong. When the FD728 was presented Fokker was barely 2 years dead and the Embraer 170/195 were not even on the drawing board at that time, that came later when Crossair opted for a 4-abreast configuration. Sorry to say but YOU better face the facts...

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1039 times:

Well Tiger...the market place sure will decide, and we will find out in due course. IF the project does go ahead, will take massive amounts of cash...cannot see any rational investor taking on the whole enchalada.

User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1030 times:

411A, I replied to your original post, correcting that at the time the FDs were launched demand for a NEW RJ was clearly given. What comes now is written in another script - a script only few people know. Everything is possible these days...

If I´ve offended you with my post I appologize for it.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1010 times:

Here is an article which I think best sums up the impact the political situation in Germany is having upon FD.


BERLIN, April 2 (Reuters) - The German government, stung by the collapse of building group Philipp Holzmann last month, said on Tuesday it may help planemaker Fairchild Dornier remain in operation after the firm filed for insolvency.

But in an apparent display of party politics ahead of a September general election, Economics Minister Werner Mueller said it was up to the Bavarian regional government, led by conservative challenger Edmund Stoiber, to offer help first.

"The ball is now in the court of the Bavarian government," Mueller told reporters. He added however that the federal government would not "completely turn its back on" efforts to help Fairchild Dornier.

Fairchild Dornier employs around 3,600 people in Germany and 700 in the United States. It was forced to file for insolvency after failing to find a strategic partner to develop new aircraft.

High-profile company collapses have been a headache this year for both Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Stoiber, the Bavarian prime minister picked by the conservatives to challenge Schroeder in the September 22 election.

The chancellor helped rescue Holzmann during a previous crisis in 1999, and the company's failure last month tarnished his image as a saviour of jobs.

Stoiber meanwhile stands to suffer a blow if the Munich-based over-indebted Kirch media group, currently in rescue talks with creditors and shareholders, were to declare insolvency.

It was Stoiber's government that helped bankroll Kirch's expansion via Bayerische Landesbank, half-owned by the state of Bavaria.

But both the federal and Bavarian governments have been involved in funding Fairchild Dornier.

The company was formed in 1996 when Fairchild Aircraft of San Antonio, Texas bought Germany's Dornier Luftfahrt. It was bought by Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, a $3.5 billion private equity fund, and Allianz Capital Partners ALVG.DE in 2000.

A consortium including Germany's HVB Group HVMG.DE and Bayerische Landesbank BLGGg.MU half-owned by Bavaria, also provided $800 million worth of financing at the time, 80 percent of it secured by loan guarantees from the German government and the state of Bavaria.

The firm, which has an order book worth $11.7 billion, said that it plans to continue with the profitable parts of its business, set up a strategic partnership, retain the key parts of its workforce and secure fresh funding.

A spokeswoman for the economics ministry said the federal government had a "significant" three-digit million euro exposure to the company. "We hope Fairchild Dornier can be kept in operation," she said.

(Remember half of the 11.7 BN in orders is Firm)

TechRep


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Mesaba Is Considering Bankruptcy Filing posted Fri Oct 7 2005 16:48:39 by KarlB737
Reuters: UA Bankruptcy Filing In Place posted Mon Dec 9 2002 00:27:14 by Ryu2
TWA's Last Bankruptcy Filing posted Wed Dec 4 2002 05:10:23 by UAL1837
UAL: Bankruptcy Filing Not An Option posted Sun Dec 23 2001 02:46:14 by United Airline
Impact Of DL Filing Bankruptcy. posted Mon Sep 12 2005 18:41:24 by B707Stu
Delta Air Seen Filing Bankruptcy Before Oct. 17 posted Wed Sep 7 2005 18:26:21 by KarlB737
How Can Delta Avoid Filing For Bankruptcy? posted Fri Aug 26 2005 01:32:06 by Flydl2atl
Is DL Bankruptcy Imminent? posted Fri Jan 21 2005 17:47:38 by Dayflyer
Sun Country Airlines Filing For Bankruptcy posted Thu Dec 6 2001 04:47:36 by SCXmechanic
NW Requests Bankruptcy Extension To 6/07 posted Fri Mar 2 2007 22:18:18 by Mikey711MN