Racko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4838 posts, RR: 21 Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1088 times:
Rumours are that Boeing wants to wait till they fill Bankruptcy and then pick out the good pieces (728 project) without the 328s. That would mean many many lost jobs...
I really hope this is just a rumour and Boeing isn't behaving that way.
777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1053 times:
Oh boo hoo people. Boeing must be delighted now, they can get FaiDor at a fraction of the price. This is business, this isn't some lovely ickle fake realitity where everyone wants to get along and every company makes profits.
VirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 50 Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1015 times:
777236ER - I think you will find Chapter 11 is bankrupcy. It basically means that the company is unable to pay its creditors, which of course means they can move to have the company liquidated to recover their money. So the company files for court protection from its creditors while it reorganises to become solvent once more, under the guidlines of Chapter 11 of the US Bankrupcy Code (thats what it is called, correct?)
V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 999 times:
It may be called bankruptcy, but it's a slang term. Chapter 11 isn't bankruptcy. It's chapter 11 of the US Bankruptcy Code, which covers all financial problems, from sole traders through to multi-nationals. Companies cannot go bankrupt.
Clipper471 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 726 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 983 times:
TechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 873 times:
There is a lot more to this Chapter 11 then anyone or I are being told. This Chapter 11 must coincide with some sort or reorganization plan to appease the new partner. My theory is the Strategic Partner has already made a handshake agreement but until some internal restructuring is complied with no LOI (Letter Of Intent) will be signed.
Who the new partner is, is unclear and will remain unclear until it is announced. Raytheon and Boeing were both potential partners with reports that Boeing offered $2BN for CDR and alliance partners interest in FD.
I think the media is being fed false information on purpose due to some initial speculation from the industry, which could have some definite stock effect to the potential buyer.
Folks wait and see what happens, at this point and time I do not think you will hear any accurate news until the new partner officially announces it.
Whatever the result, it will be difficult to speculate. If the buyout partner is an American company it will surely generate Anti-trust suits from Embraer and bombardier immediately and possibly EU hurdles. Therefore an all together buyout I do not think will happen, a strategic partner is less of a hassle for both parties.
My thought is regardless of whom the partner is there will be some kind of deterrent to this merger for obvious reasons. One less competitor in the Regional market is advantageous to Embraer and Bombardier and they will make every attempt to block anything that will keep FD solvent and competitive.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7694 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 842 times:
I think Boeing will probably not buy Fairchild-Dornier outright, but may hold more like a 35-40% stake in the company.
By the way, I think EU may not object to Boeing buying F-D even if Embraer complains because after all, Embraer is heavily owned by the Brazilian government.
Why do I keep on thinking of the possibility that Boeing might be just seriously considering using the former McDonnell-Douglas production line in Long Beach, CA to build the F-D 928-100/200?
TechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 820 times:
In order for Boeing to become a majority partner they will need to invest 75% and buy out CDR and Alliance Partners. A meager 35-40% will not be enough and there is no way the production will be moved to Long Beach. The German labor union is strong and this is an election year this will not be allowed by the EU I guarantee.
BTW Embraer is in Brazil and the majority partner is not a foreign company, that’s a totally different scenario or apples to oranges.
411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 805 times:
Lets face facts....these aeroplanes, indeed the whole project was a pipe dream from the beginning and should never have been started. There are ALREADY enough regional jet programs underway, so this one was a COMPLETE waste of time.
Suspect in the end it will fold. Too little...much too late.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4111 posts, RR: 39 Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 774 times:
411A: you´re dead wrong. When the FD728 was presented Fokker was barely 2 years dead and the Embraer 170/195 were not even on the drawing board at that time, that came later when Crossair opted for a 4-abreast configuration. Sorry to say but YOU better face the facts...
411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 753 times:
Well Tiger...the market place sure will decide, and we will find out in due course. IF the project does go ahead, will take massive amounts of cash...cannot see any rational investor taking on the whole enchalada.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4111 posts, RR: 39 Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 744 times:
411A, I replied to your original post, correcting that at the time the FDs were launched demand for a NEW RJ was clearly given. What comes now is written in another script - a script only few people know. Everything is possible these days...
If I´ve offended you with my post I appologize for it.
TechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 724 times:
Here is an article which I think best sums up the impact the political situation in Germany is having upon FD.
BERLIN, April 2 (Reuters) - The German government, stung by the collapse of building group Philipp Holzmann last month, said on Tuesday it may help planemaker Fairchild Dornier remain in operation after the firm filed for insolvency.
But in an apparent display of party politics ahead of a September general election, Economics Minister Werner Mueller said it was up to the Bavarian regional government, led by conservative challenger Edmund Stoiber, to offer help first.
"The ball is now in the court of the Bavarian government," Mueller told reporters. He added however that the federal government would not "completely turn its back on" efforts to help Fairchild Dornier.
Fairchild Dornier employs around 3,600 people in Germany and 700 in the United States. It was forced to file for insolvency after failing to find a strategic partner to develop new aircraft.
High-profile company collapses have been a headache this year for both Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Stoiber, the Bavarian prime minister picked by the conservatives to challenge Schroeder in the September 22 election.
The chancellor helped rescue Holzmann during a previous crisis in 1999, and the company's failure last month tarnished his image as a saviour of jobs.
Stoiber meanwhile stands to suffer a blow if the Munich-based over-indebted Kirch media group, currently in rescue talks with creditors and shareholders, were to declare insolvency.
It was Stoiber's government that helped bankroll Kirch's expansion via Bayerische Landesbank, half-owned by the state of Bavaria.
But both the federal and Bavarian governments have been involved in funding Fairchild Dornier.
The company was formed in 1996 when Fairchild Aircraft of San Antonio, Texas bought Germany's Dornier Luftfahrt. It was bought by Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, a $3.5 billion private equity fund, and Allianz Capital Partners ALVG.DE in 2000.
A consortium including Germany's HVB Group HVMG.DE and Bayerische Landesbank BLGGg.MU half-owned by Bavaria, also provided $800 million worth of financing at the time, 80 percent of it secured by loan guarantees from the German government and the state of Bavaria.
The firm, which has an order book worth $11.7 billion, said that it plans to continue with the profitable parts of its business, set up a strategic partnership, retain the key parts of its workforce and secure fresh funding.
A spokeswoman for the economics ministry said the federal government had a "significant" three-digit million euro exposure to the company. "We hope Fairchild Dornier can be kept in operation," she said.
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