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KLM Reducing Long-Haul Service?  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11200 posts, RR: 57
Posted (14 years 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

It is to my understanding that KLM has ordered 8 777-200ERs and 3 B747-400ERFs, a total of 11 aircraft to replace all 12 747-300s.

Does this mean KLM is downsizing there fleet size? If so, does this mean KLM is planning on reducing it's long haul service?

KLM's long haul service is extremely vast except the US which is somewhat limited.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
5 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5297 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (14 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

Don't forget KLM still has outstanding orders for 3 747-400 Combis...

User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (14 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 2266 times:


That's the 1st phase of fleet renewal.

KLM's 2nd phase fleet renewal will include additional order of 772ER plus (may be, I doubted it) some A332.

User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 3103 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (14 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 2249 times:


I don't think KLM is shrinking their longhaul fleet. As I posted this a couple of days ago on another thread in this forum. Forgive me for copy/pasting this in...Hope it answers your questions.
Maybe you can help me out with some questions that I had in the same posting:


KLM's 12 ship operational 747-300 fleet consists of:
2x Full Freighters
2x Full Pax --> 26 Bus.Class, 436 Ec.Class
8x Combi --> 44 Bus.Class, 247 Ec.Class, and 7 full size pallets on Main Deck.

So it looks like the eight ordered 777-200ER will replace the eight Combi's one-on-one. For pax numbers the 777-200 comes quite close to the -300 Combi.
Three 747-400ERF will come in to replace the two Full Freighters and provide additional capacity to accomodate the lost -300Combi cargo capacity. Although I'm not sure if the -300F will be replaced...if so, this then leaves only one 747-400ERF to replace the cargo capacity of 8 -300Combis [= 8x7 = 56 pallets, how many pallets can one 747-400ERF hold, I believe 24 or so?]. But then again, I underfloor cargo capacity for the 777 is larger than that of the 747.
BTW: Does KLM still use outsourced cargo capacity [Atlas Air]? It appears that KLM is no longer using Atlas Air.

This leaves the 2x Full Pax -300 [462 pax] replacement open for discussion, although these might be replaced by the 3 still outstanding 747-400 orders.

Considering the M11/767 replacement: Will this be announced by early May?? It took them only 5 years or so to decide on the 747-300 replacement...Will they do this within a couple of weeks for the 767/M11? I'm curious though...How about a 777Combi instead of the A330...

Will the wingspan of the A330 or 777 fit within the M11 footprint? At Schiphol, gates E2, E3, E4, E5, E6, E7 serve NW D10's and KL 767/M11's. I thought that the M11 is the largest aircraft that these gates can handle...Will the 777 or A330 fit in these gates?


Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineNightcruiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 2 months 5 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

Oh yeah, most definetely! 777's and A330's will definetely fit in those gates, PW100.

User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 3103 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (14 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2169 times:


Don't agree with you that US services are somewhat limited. Point is that KLM has pooled ALL their US flights with NW. Quite anumber of US flights are operated by NW with NW aircraft. But the revenues of these flights are split between KLM and NW, just as the revenues on the KLM US flights are also split with NW.

These are the KLM North Atlantic flights this summer [all flights daily]:
08.00 DTW NW D10
10.25 JFK NW 744
10.30 IAH KL 747
10.40 MIA NW D10 --> from 16 Sep KL M11
10.55 ORD KL 747
11.00 DTW NW 744
11.10 MSP NW D10 --> from 02 Jun NW 742
11.30 LAX KL 747
11.30 EWR NW D10
11.35 IAD NW D10
11.45 SFO KL M11
14.10 YTO KL 747
14.15 BOS NW D10
14.15 MEX KL 747
14.20 DTW KL M11/747
14.35 SEA NW D10
16.10 MEM KL M11
16.10 YMQ KL 747
16.15 YVR KL 767
16.35 MSP NW D10 --> from 02 Jun NW 742
16.50 DTW NW D10 --> from 02 Jun NW 742
19.20 JFK KL 747

22 daily flights to 13 US, 3 CAN and 1 MEX airports.
Off course this does not compare to BA's US business, but still looks quite impressive to me, considering that we are a small country. Besides BA, AF, LH, I don't see any other Euro-airline producing this number of North Atlantic flights...


Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
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