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New Long-haul Route From BMI From LHR  
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7448 posts, RR: 13
Posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2774 times:
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Flight International contains a report on bmi with Austin Reid of bmi saying, "We're waiting to see what the Heathrow [open-skies] policy will be - but if we can't get Heathrow to the USA approved, we will fly to a non-regulation destination."

My favourite: Toronto, to tie-in with Air Canada.

He also said that the MAN long-haul were 75% full in March although "passenger numbers have been difficult". I believe these loads to be in excess of the overall bmi load factor....and can't be bad for a new entrant at a time of uncertainty on US travel!

David/MAN

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGuyBetsy1 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

"Toronto, to tie-in with Air Canada" will simply mean that BD will codeshare with AC using AC aircraft!

User currently offlineEnglandair From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2000, 2228 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

The Daily Mail today has an article about bmi's fight to stop B2. Hopefully the public will see that more competition brings down prices and so support BD.

User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

How is BD's financial situation?

User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7448 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2560 times:
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GuyBetsy1

The 2nd paragraph of the article:

"The airline, which serves Chicago and Washington D.C. from Manchester with two Airbus A330-200s, aims to re-activate its third, stored A330 for the new route, flying from either Manchester or Heathrow, says chief executive Austin Reid."

Therefore, I reaffirm YYZ with this new bit: using their own metal i.e. G-WWBD (the one in Star Alliance colours which I have yet to see!)

David


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Why not fly it from MAN to YYZ.AC with 5 LHR-YYZ flights a day,pretty much how the market so why not start a flight from MAN?

User currently offlineEnglandair From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2000, 2228 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Just a quick question- what happened to Sir Michael Bishop?! I was quite supprised to read "CEO, Austin Reid" on their website.....!

User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7448 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2537 times:
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Sir Michael Bishop? Perhaps he's retired and started planespotting again  Laugh out loud

There were one or two rumours about AC handing over the YYZ-MAN route to bmi and so this could happen. But I guess they may want to commit themselves to be a LHR long-haul operator first!

David


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2520 times:

LHR-YYZ would be more lucrative than MAN-YYZ for sure.But,how would AC respond to this?Is the 3rd BD332 in MAN or LHR seat config?I've lost track!

User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7448 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2503 times:
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I believe that it is in LHR config (they didn't envisage MAN long-haul operations to begin with!). However, they have a bit of time to get it suitable for MAN ops.

In terms of loads, AC are expected to be using a mix of A330s and A340s at least twice a week from July to September (though this may be related to something or other happening near here, the name of which momentarily escapes me  Wink/being sarcastic ). It also gives an indication that most of the traffic is VFR/tourist and not F/J class.

If bmi pick it up the AC route, it means we'll go back to daily year-round services (not sure if they'd route it via GLA though, as AC always did this in winter).

David


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

though this may be related to something or other happening near here, the name of which momentarily escapes me ....I think you are referring to the Manchester City Promotion Celebrations  Big thumbs up
Didnt AC fly the 762 into MAN though?Thats a big difference from the 332 especially ,as you said,it went via GLA during the winter.BD definitely put too many eggs into the LHR basket.


User currently offlineEGNM-LBA From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

It was reported in an earlier thread that the ORD/IAD flights ex-MAN were full in the run up to easter. If the average for the month was only 75%, this suggests that the underlying average for the rest of the month was at its usual 55%-65%. With no one sat in the high yield cabins (except on the TV adverts!) its difficult to see how they're making much money on this. The fact that bmi are using almost every opportunity to lobby the govt over open-skies ex-LHR seems to support this theory.



User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

This Toronto flight is the same one that fellow Star Alliance member, Singapore Airlines, codeshares with AC isn't it?


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7448 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2472 times:
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They've always said they had an internal timescale for MAN long-haul (which I probably think they mean sort of 2004 onwards), with LHR being the initial base.

They've also alluded to the scenario that because they have a greater presence at LHR, it would raise their profile in the US and ultimately help pave the way for further US expansion from here. After all, looking at the bmi-liveried flights here, all we have is LHR (7 daily), GLA (5 daily), ABZ (3 daily) and EDI (5 daily), which is pretty small for their 2nd hub.

Would it help if they would also raised their own presence here through introducing more European flights themselves rather than have some of them operated by Lufthansa and SAS?

David


User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2603 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2465 times:
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I don't think the MAN-YYZ route will be viable for bmi using an A330. It's a VFR route, and most of the competition on the route is from charter airlines. Fares and yields are rock bottom.

Air Canada have been serving Manchester (and Glasgow) for years, and are very well established, yet they can only manage a single daily B767-200 from each city for the peak summer season, for the rest of the year the flights are combined.

What's even more telling is that Air Canada use domestic B767s on the MAN/GLA routes offering only economy class service. The First Class section of the aircraft is sold by tour operators as extra legroom seating, but Air Canada do not offer an Executive Class on the routes.

If a carrier that has been established on a route for years can only manage a daily B767-200 with no premium cabin, feeding into their largest hub, a new entrant flying a larger aircraft is really going to struggle.

LHR-YYZ would seem viable, but it would duplicate existing Air Canada service and could dilute yields on the route.

I'd expect bmi would be more sensible going for a route that would be more beneficial to the Star Alliance by adding a route rather than duplicating an existing one, possibly going East to take advantage of all the United/Air Canada feed into LHR connecting to the Middle East/Asia.

I'm only surprised they didn't get G-WWBD flying for the Summer!

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

What about London-Cairo or Riyadh/Jeddah?

User currently offlineEGNM-LBA From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

At the end of the day, the size of their presence at MAN etc etc is all secondary to the fact that the market characteristics of the LHR long-haul market are fundamentaly different to those at MAN. And unfortunately, unless the world's financial institutions and Buckingham Palace et al move up the M6, the most significant differences (the lack of premium pax or an eastbound market) are never going to change. Without these, bmi are left fighting it out with DL, CO, AA, US etc for the UK originating inter-lining market. With CO seemingly offering £249 + tax for just about any destination via EWR, this is clearly a competitive / low yield market to be in.

User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

MAN-ORD/IAH are such dog routes, I'd love to know how many pax on board are actually holding UA codeshare tickets. Seriously, I can't begin to imagine how much money these 2 services must be losing.

User currently offlineQatar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

IMO BMI is better off serving higher yeilding destinations such as flights to Africa (Look at the success BA and VS are having to Nigeria) and also they should serve Asia (Hong Kong, Osaka, Singapore etc.) rather than flying accross the atlantic.

They can't serve the US from LHR but AFAIK there are no constraints to Asia/Africa.


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