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Air India To Resume Service To Germany  
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 380 posts, RR: 1
Posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

AI are gradually going to re-instate their international routes suspended three years ago due to the airlines financial position, Frankfurt is the first city to be back in their network.

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.....up there with the best!
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTakkyu_Ishino From France, joined Oct 2001, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

will that route be mainly used for german businessmen or Indian Immigrants in germany ?

User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33077 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

It will be BOM-DEL-FRA-ORD.


a.
User currently offlineBa777-236 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 674 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Would Toronto (YYZ) be one of those routes? Because I would love to see one of those 744's back here Love

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I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16308 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

A-I has publicly stated they have much difficult attracting non-Indian customers. Poor on-time performance and inflight service. Their primary clientele is the Indian diaspora.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

Thats bad news for the Frankfurt community!  Smokin cool

Didn't they try to land one day, hit some approach lights and then diverted to Dusseldorf with an approach light stuck (!) in one engine!?!

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems exciting times are coming for FRA...


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16308 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

A-I was always running afoul of YYZ ATC requests I'm told.

I'm not sorry to see them leave YYZ.

Be good when Jet Airways can expand to intl routes. Their rep is good.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineKL713 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 772 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2278 times:

wow, i hope after FRA they will resume AMS as well soon!!


732 733 734 73G 738 739 742 743 744 752 763 77E 773 77W 319 320 332 333 343 388 M11 146 DH4
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

So much AI bashing in one day!

I asked some people at AI about the incident that SetJet is talking about, and they have told me nothing of the sort happened. Could you give more specifics please?

Even if that were true, dont Western airlines have these (and worse) problems? we all have heard about one European carrier whose pilots couldnt the wheels up after take off and ran out of fuel midway. Then of course the Gimli Glider which ran out of fuel, becuase Canadian's cant do basic math.

But does that mean you stop flying the western carriers?

Ai has its share of problems, but i think some members like YYZ717 clearly seem to be in a bitchy mood today. As anyone who has visited AI's engineering facilities in BOM can tell you, AI maintainance and safety is certainly among the best of its class in the world.

AI has non-Indian customers as well, incl. on Trans-Atlantic runs.

As for 9W going intl. becuase they have got a good rep, well, they have had their share of problems as well. Jet Airways has had a problem with flight security in the past. And if i am not mistaken, they have numerous cases of tires blowing out on landing, and engines falling off while taxiing.

- Roy


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16308 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

Hey Indianguy, it's understandable that you would be proud of your home airline.

However, from a Western standpoint, their fleet is in poor shape, their on-time record is poor, and their inflight service is not good. They had a terrible reputation on Toronto. A-I themselves have publicly stated their own inability to appeal to Western/non-Indian travellers.

If you look at the rest of the av-forum, you'll see a raging debate about NW-bashing, France-bashing, AC-bashing.

No one is picking on A-I unduly. Nonetheless, A-I will continue to be criticized on this forum from time to time (as will NW, AC, and other carriers).




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2228 times:


Well, an Air India flight has definitely "destroyed" parts of Frankfurts runway lights. I think the runway was closed for a good while. It was on the news.
But I think it's cool that they are coming back especially also with the flight to ORD.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16308 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

Then of course the Gimli Glider which ran out of fuel, because Canadian's cant do basic math.

Don't slag Canada Indianguy. Last time I checked, thousands of Indians are banging on our doors to enter Canada. No Canadians clamouring to move to India.

Canada can't do the math? Canada has 100% literacy. India about 50%. Canada ranks 3rd in the world in living standards...India about 120th.

Canada is not perfect, but we're as close as it gets, just about. Nuff said.









Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Yeah Canada is 100% literate, but look at the quality of the education! Screwed up in Pounds-conversion! Gosh we learnt that in 7th grade didnt we? So Quantity obviosuly means more to Canadian politcians than Quality. 100% will be *literate*, it doesnt matter if they cant do basic math, they just need to know how to sign their cheques while lining up collect their Social Security.

Whatever figures you may throw around to justify your claptrap YYZ717, we havent had anything like the Gimli Glider here. Incidents have taken place due to technical faults, weather etc (And AI has had NONE of those accidents in the past 15 years).

But Canadian carriers in particular have a lot of catching up to do. (My friend tells me of his experience of flying on a Canadian airline, with ageing DC9/Fokker F28 (i think) fit for the scrapyard; scary to say the least. His exact words:*And i thought Alliance Air was bad*).

But you wont see us putting on this "They are so bad its sad" routine, time and time again, like you have been doing. Last time i distinctly remember a similar tirade by you against PIA if i am not mistaken.

And another thing, We arent exactly DYING to get into Canada.

Regards.

Roy



User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

I can confirm that the Air India story at FRA really happened. A couple of co-workers told me about it when I was working for Fraport last year.
AFAIK, the aircraft landed at FRA and not DUS afterwards, but that is the part of the story I am not 100% sure about.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

btw: when will they start flights to Frankfurt again ?

User currently offlineFlyHigh@tom From United Arab Emirates, joined Sep 2001, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Hey Yyz717, So u compare NW to AI... Have u ever been on an AI? and then u speak of the service. Ok AI had financial troubles and they pulled out the PTVs but i guess canadian airlines are not so good either. How many Canadian carriers have disappeared eh?

Do you know anything about Jet airways?Their biggest a/c is a B738 and you want them to go internantional! Wake up "Mr. Director of Finance", Jet has just started consolidating on their domestic sector and it will be better for them to remain small and increase their revenue here.

Who are the thousands of Indians banging on ur country's doors man...Atleast not me.

This topic was regarding AI resuming operations to Germany....and you were grossly off topic.

And hey...yes Indianguy is proud of his flag carrier as every Indian is, can you tell the same about yourself?


Setjet, so whatz all this fuss about one incident, i am sure you have seen bigger incidents/accidents with other major carriers as well.

So if a tail falls off an AA plane casuing a fatal crash does it mean they are to be banned from airports or does it mean that generally they are a bad airlines?

Unfortunately accidents do happen and we have to accept the risk when flying. I dont think AI has such a "bad" safety record.




User currently offlineMunich From Germany, joined Mar 2002, 155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2165 times:

Hey guys, calm down!
It's true, AI have had an incident. But this isn't a reason to bash a person, a nation or an airline. Incitends happend x times a month. I would be pleased if AI comes to Munich and it's pitty that this doesn't happen.
Kind regards to India and all over the world

Source: http://www.jacdec.de/ALL1999.txt

DATE: 20.01.1999 LOCAL TIME: morning
LOCATION: Frankfurt AP / Germany
AIRLINE: Air India
TYPE: Boeing 747-400 REGISTRATION: VT-EVA C/N: 28094 Age: 2 years + 2 months
OPERATION: ISP FLIGHT: Delhi -> Frankfurt (AI 155)
OCCUPANTS: - FATALITIES: 0 INJURIES: 0 DAMAGE TO AIRCRAFT: substantial
On final approach to runway 25L in foggy conditions, the aircraft touched down short of the runway where it struck landing lights, the
localizer antenna and blew 6 tires. The pilot managed to get airborne again and made a subsequent safe landing on the parallel runway
25R.
SOURCE: Justplanes





Regards! Robert alias munich
User currently offlineFlyHigh@tom From United Arab Emirates, joined Sep 2001, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

Sorry guys,
I guess i just got a bit heated up after reading the posts.
Should not have turned it into an India Vs Canada war!
I guess Munich just knocked some sense into me. thanks a lot.

My wishes for future safe landings for AI. Hope i can fly in them in future. By the way i work for Siemens and we usually fly Swiss/Delta/Sabena(OK now gone  Sad ) to Frankfurt/Munich/Brussles. If the schedules are convenient then i hope to fly in them sometime.

Cheers
Thomas.



User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16308 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2144 times:

What's annoying (or perhaps amusing) is that Indianguy (and others) can pass by AC-bashing, NW-bashing, etc....but the minute an A-I-bashing thread comes along, they jump up & start hurling insults, as though precious India is being picked on. Well, get over yourself.

Yes, I've also contributed to a PIA thread numerous times. Why? Their service & record are terrible! But then I've also contributed to numerous others airline commentary in a similar negative vein.....AC being a primary one.

If you don't like criticism of your national airline, then agree to disagree. Don't insult.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2239 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

A-I was always running afoul of YYZ ATC requests I'm told.

Can you back this up with any press reports ?

However, from a Western standpoint, their fleet is in poor shape, their on-time record is poor, and their inflight service is not good.

Their fleet average age is no worse than most Western airlines. E.g. the plane in the Frankfurt incident was 2.2 years old, as Munich's factoid shows. They have a bunch of older 742s dating from the mid-70s, though. But the 742 is still around with many airlines. How would you define poor shape ?

A-I's on-time performance has bordered on above 90% in the last few years. I don't have immediate reference to this, but Sean (former member B747-437B) does, on flyertalk. Granted, they have a smaller, but more overworked fleet. However, ontime performance is ontime performance.

Inflight service is one of the things that they do a lot *better* than western airlines, especially on the India-LHR and LHR-JFK routes. Check out AI trip reports right here on a.net if you wish. The general perception reg. AI on the transatlantic market, that becomes apparent from these reports is - cheap and provides very good service. But if you want flat beds and AVOD, its not for you.

A-I themselves have publicly stated their own inability to appeal to Western/non-Indian travellers.

Again, I would like to see evidence of this. From my own viewpoint it is naturally difficult to imagine AI giving *themselves* bad PR. They get lots of it from their countrymen.

Don't slag Canada Indianguy. Last time I checked, thousands of Indians are banging on our doors to enter Canada. No Canadians clamouring to move to India.

IndianGuy has every right to criticize specific incidents in Canadian aviation, just as much as you or anyone else have every right to do the same with India's (e.g. the Frankfurt incident in this thread) as long as you back em up with facts. India and Canada's relative prosperity has ZERO relevance to gaffes like the Gimli Glider and the Air Transat episode, both of which thankfully ended on a good note. Sorry. On a side note, India does have something to thank Canada for - not their immigration policies, but their help with tracking down the culprits of the 1985 AI bombing over the Atlantic.

What's annoying (or perhaps amusing) is that Indianguy (and others) can pass by AC-bashing, NW-bashing, etc....but the minute an A-I-bashing thread comes along, they jump up & start hurling insults, as though precious India is being picked on. Well, get over yourself.

Aren't you the chap who felt the overriding need to compare the standard of living in India and Canada because an Indian criticized a rather stupid mistake that happened on an Air Canada flight ?

Yes, I've also contributed to a PIA thread numerous times. Why? Their service & record are terrible!

I'm sorry, but what you have to say about PIA has zero relevance here. IndianGuy's Gimli Glider example was probably flamebait, but you made it worse by turning it into an India vs Canada socio-economic comparison. The fact that you criticize other airlines does not justify your India-Canada argument in this thread.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

Indianguy,

No offence but your argument doesn't hold water. Literacy rates are very low in India, crime is high as is child labor/prostitution/pornography, and there is a huge gap between the rich and the poor (less than 10% of the population control more than 90% of the wealth). You are in no position to criticize Canada.

Anyway, I've been wondering too, with the Indian population in Canada booming is AI thinking of flying to YYZ/YUL?



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Will the FRA service be a weekly service?

If so, they're never going to attract Business flyers - Indian or German or Klingons for that matter. A weekly or even twice weekly Bom-del-FRa service appears to be a way of getting to ORD because of slot restrictions or lack of landing rights at Heathrow. If so,then its the Chicago-India traffic they are chasing after.

As far as AI's poor reputation is concerned, much of it I believe is overblown out of proportion. I've had the opportunity to fly them in both Economy and Business Class and found that service in Economy is very good, legroom is good, and they leave on time. However, Indians will be Indians when it comes to boarding a plane, and they tend to push and shove during boarding with more gusto on AI than other airlines - just an observation. Business Class service is far more personal than competing carriers, but AI don't have the gizmos that Singapore, BA, or even Norhtwest have. But if I had a choice I would rather fly AI Business on the Upper deck of a 744 than a competing carrier's 767. I've never doubted AI's technical calibre either in the cockpit or in maintenance. If it were as lousy as some of the detractors on here claim, then carriers like Singapore would never have hired away a lot of AIs flight crew. Finally, Air India have trouble attracting non-Indians because they don't advertise ! In the early 80s they advertised constantly in the NY market and carried a lot of non-diaspora based traffic. However, with the size of the diaspora and the limited number of flights due to restrictive bilaterals, AI don't really have to advertise. Business traffic is another matter, but on recent JFK-LHR flights their Upper deck cabin was full - mostly London-based execs who fly AI because their J-Class cabin is cheaper than BA or AA - and as one guy said, "the food is better."

Comparisons between India, a third-world country, albeit one with a sizeable sliver at the top who live in First world conditions, and Canada, a first world country linked economically to a very powerful neighbor are odious. But what this has to do with Air India's service or technical caliber is elusive to me.


User currently offlineMunich From Germany, joined Mar 2002, 155 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

@ FlyHigh@tom: You're welcome and many thanks for your conciliatorily words.
@ Yyz717: It's necessary to distinguish between criticism and insult.
@ BarfBag : Thanks for your comments. I think there is nothing to add. I think we should stick to the point.




Regards! Robert alias munich
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