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Iberia To End MIA Mini-hub  
User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

Because of the new immigration requirements that transiting non-US citizens will need a visa, Iberia may discontinue its Miami feeder flights. Exelsior newspsper in Mexico City says that Mexican government officials are trying to convince Iberia of using Cancun as an alternative.

Iberia used to operate DC-9s, and now I believe A319's, from MIA to several points in Central America and Mexico to connect to its nonstop widebody service to MAD.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4907 times:

I find your post hard to believe. do you have any prof of that requirement. I dont think that the US goverment would do such a stupid thing, Iberia is not the only airline that uses miami as a transit airport. it would also affect many other airlines, including us airlines

User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6220 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Actually right now they are just thinking about it , nothing official yet. Guatemala is also in negotiations with Iberia to move the MIA hub to Guatemala. I'm sure Iberia will not leave MIA that fast they will sure try to reach an agreement with the US govt.
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32884 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

It is true they are considering it because of the new immigration rules, but nothing is official yet (Iberia has said nothing). Iberia is going to try to get around the rules and is likely to ask for immunity before moving thier operations because no other airport will be able to offer what MIA offers in terms of local business traffic and profits. Yes, other foreign airlines, particulary Air France and now Mexicana, use MIA as a transit airport, but their operations are not as large as Iberias. We'll see what happens, it will be sad to see them go if that has to happen.


a.
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32884 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

Another problem: Grupo Taca and LACSA. Grupo Taca and LACSA has strong influence on the goverments of Central America, and any attemept at an IB hub at GUA or SJU will be meet with opposition. Grupo Taca already has helped elimate IB's 5th freedom on MIA-SAL. COPA at PTY may be more lienant, but I don't know. No way in hell they would consider Cancun. Yields are terrible. PTY would provide the most viable option outside of MIA.


a.
User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6220 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4797 times:

PTY might me a good option but they would hardly have space, PTY is a small airport and when I was there it was overcrowded. Iberia would never be able to use PTY as a mini hub with Copa there.


Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32884 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4802 times:

Okay, I know third post in a short while, but I've found more info. Iberia is going to try thier best not to have to leave:

We hope to be able to continue operating in Miami," said an Iberia spokeswoman in Madrid who asked not to be identified. "But we are looking at other alternatives, just in case things don't change."

And this problem is not only effecting Iberia, but everyone, including American and United/Star Alliance. Airport and Iberia officals have already begun speaking with federal authorities to solve the problems. Hopefully a solution will be reached. If it isn't, Iberia will likely be sent packing.




a.
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

I don't understand it. When you stay in the transit area you don't pass immigration officers and you don't have to show passports or visas. Where is the problem?

User currently offlinePatroni From Luxembourg, joined Aug 1999, 1403 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4690 times:

@ZRH : This might be the case in Europe, in the USA you will however enter the country even when transiting.

When flying on a freighter aircraft (for example), you need a US visa even when you are coming from a country which normally participates in the visa waiver program. I flew last year from Taipei with a fuel stop in Fairbanks to Europe and was required to have a full US visa (for about 50 USD!) in order to pass through Fairbanks, even though that I did not leave the aircraft there!

Cheers,
Tom


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

Chepos, the airport in panama is small, but it has 2 10000 feet runways, ILS CAT III and the best ATC center in central america, also, you probably came on copa, copas flights arrive almost al with only ten minutes of separation and leave about an hour later, returning in the afternoon. Iberias conecting flights to miami arrive around 1 o clock, at that time the airport is practically deserted and the flight to madrid leaves at about 4pm, still an hour of low traffic in panama, so panama is not such a bad option , but a very unlikely one.

User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2728 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4621 times:


The best option for the replacement of MIA would be Cancun. In geographic terms it is only located about an hour and a half's flight time from Miami, and it would be relatively easy to get 5th freedom rights from Cancun to any city in Central America. However, Cancun is an extremely low-yield market with an insignificant number of business passengers. That is why you don't already see either Iberia or AeroMexico flying directly to Madrid from Cancun. Another thing about Cancun is that it is not particularly suited for connecting passengers. It is not comfortable enough like Miami. Chepos am I correct?

Guatemala's airport does not have modern facilities of a hub. I am not sure of this but Guatemala's airport also might have a smaller runway, which might restrict the number of passengers flying to Europe. San Salvador's Comalapa airport does have the proper infrastructure to support such a hub but it is not a good option due to its geographic location. The same could be said about Panama, which might boost the facilities to support such a hub but its location makes it the worst of any Central American city that is trying to host the hub.

In conclusion, any city just won't be able to support a hub like Miami can. I hope that IB can find a loophole to this visa problem. I'm pretty sure that the city of Miami is going to do everything in its power to stop IB from contributing precious amounts of money in the local economy but it's up to those people in Washington, which are mostly concerned with security problems at the moment, to deem the future of IB's mini-hub. Mah4546 Is it the case that many people are using the hub as an excuse to land in U.S. soil in order to apply for political asylum? I remember hearing not long ago that this was a problem with Colombians who where only supposed to use MIA as a transit point but would end up applying for political asylum instead.



 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4594 times:

IB ought to designate Havana as its new mini-hub. That would be an effective way of showing the bureaucrats in Washington what fools they are.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offline747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4578 times:

As I side note, I am certain that in the US/Spain air agreement permits a mini hub in the US.Dont know if this technicality about the visas would casue the US to be in default of the agreement. Also there was and still is considerable manpower already in Miami from IB working on a future expansion of its Miami hub and paving the way for a possible US/Spain openskies. So perhaps with the indcentives of more jobs, more money,more flights etc. in Miami, enough pressure will be put on the pea brain nit wits in Washington. I have a gut feeling that in the end it will somewho be worked out and IB will stay.

User currently offline747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

PS Forgot to also say that dont forget the brother of the president of the USA is also the gov. of Florida. Would certainly think that counts for a great, great deal. Dont underestimate that trump card.

User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

For me I think Cancun it's the best option. Besides CUN have a better terminal, than any other airports in the area, the only problem is the expensive this airport has become in the last years, to land and operate in this airport is very expensive, even more than CDG and it's in the TOP10 airports most expensive world wide.

The good thing Cun can offer it's the new building and a possible second runway in a near future...since Cancun it's growing very fast and has become the 3rd most important airport in the country.

ghost77  Smile






Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32884 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

Iberia is not giving up, they are going to look for immunity to transit rules, immunity which they had before 9.11. As everyone here seems to agree, there is no logical, profitable alternative. And this comes at a time when Iberia was planning on expanding thier MIA presence to also include secondary Mexican markets (in particular GDL and MTY). Only Miami offers the high-yield traffic.

Latinplane, the real problem in SAL is simple: Grupo TACA. They did complain about Iberia and were succsesful in yanking Iberia's 5th freedom on MIA-SAL and they will complain if Iberia tries anything in GUA, SJO, or SAL.



a.
User currently offlineEmirates Skies From Australia, joined Nov 2001, 171 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4482 times:


What are the possibilities of IBeria using Havana or SDQ (Santo Domingo, Dominica) if the worst were to happen ('kicked out' of MIA)?

Emirates Skies



Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints
User currently offlineCOPA737 From Panama, joined Jan 2002, 331 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4400 times:

Well, I think Panama is not that bad at all. As Luisca said, have a little advantage over the others Central American Countries.

About Guatemala and Costa Rica, both have very modern terminals, Its bad that many people doesnt know that. And starts making posts here, that are outdated and doesnt have any sense.

I think that, Iberia should try to keep the Miami Hub. Because we all now, that Miami is the best hub for all the Latin American destinations. That why many Cargo and Passenger airlines have hubs there.

Regards,

COPA737



Panamá Crece y Copa Airlines crece con Panamá!
User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6220 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4365 times:

Geographically speaking if the MIA hub has to be dismantled CUN or SDQ would be the best options ,the airport infrastructure would be the problem and as people have said the yields to Cancun wouldn't be too good. PTY geographically speaking wouldn't really make sense, most of the destinations are to the north so it would be backtacking to reach the other central american destinations, but on the other hand it's extremely easy to fly through it- no immigration or anything if you are just transiting. Thinking about it HAV wouldn't be that bad of an idea, but there is no replacement to MIA. Latinplane CUN is an airport that in my opinion is already saturated with the amount of passengers it already handles if Iberia makes it a minihub I wouldn't even want to imagine the mess iit would create.
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineFunny From Greece, joined May 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

Why not change to La Habana as a hub.

Jason


User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

Problem is, I remember reading in another thread that half of the traffic between MIA and the Central American destinations is O/D, i.e. not originating at /connecting on to MAD/BCN.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineEmirates Skies From Australia, joined Nov 2001, 171 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4266 times:


If it is correct that half of the traffic between MIA and Central America is O/D, the visa issue should not be a problem for them, right? The problem was about the visa for the other 50%: transitting pax...

I think that IBeria stands to lose a lot out of all this. It cannot fly planes with 50% of the present capacity to MIA and same such planes to its new hub (SDQ/HAV/PTY/etc.) for connecting pax to MAD.

I think it would be funny if MIA lost IBeria's mini-hub to Havana!
I wonder how the IMP. people in Washington and Miami would react to this!

I hope MIA keeps IBeria ...just for IBeria's sake.



Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints
User currently offlineDouglasDC8 From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

The reason the visa requirement has suddenly arisen is not only related to September 11. Due to the unfortunate unrest in some countries in Central and South America, transiting passengers have been asking for political asylum once they enter Miami. I did not know this has become a problem for Iberia, although I did hear about this happening at American and Avianca.

User currently offlineIbe1238 From Spain, joined Mar 2001, 134 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (12 years 5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

I'm an IBERIA ticket sales agent based in BCN airport. Nowadays the problems with the hub of MIA are two.
According to the nacionality of the passenger he may need a VISA to transit in Miami. The other problem is that all passengers MUST pick up their baggage, clear customs in MIAMI and then continue to CUN or the other Central-American destinations.
I have never liked MIAMI hub. As far as I'm concerned, I should vote for LA HABANA. Easier transfers, possibilities of new destinations because CUBA is the Caribbean country prefered by the Spaniards to spend their holidays and the economic and touristic relations between that wonderful island and Spain are very interesting. LA HABANA as hub would be much more profitable for IBERIA. Taxes and costs will be lower than in MIAMI.
m


User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6220 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (12 years 5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4195 times:

Ibe1238 this has nothing to do with the MIA hub but I have a question related to Iberia's operations at San Juan. How are the loads for this flight, and do they ever plan to operate the SDQ and SJU flights separately .
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
25 PROSA : I have never liked MIAMI hub. As far as I'm concerned, I should vote for LA HABANA. Easier transfers, possibilities of new destinations because CUBA i
26 Luisca : why is this forum filled with rednecks "Padcrasher" The US thinks that it can do wathever it and everyone will obey, you think that the world is at yo
27 Reggaebird : La Habana (Havana) would not be a great transit hub for Iberia because of the following: 1) It has very limited gate space 2) Investment would be need
28 Heavymetal : A few minutes before 9am on a beautiful New York morning last September, the US got a dose of where all our convenience and openness got us...the whis
29 Bkkair : Good point Prosa. Move to La Habana. I just can't understand why other countries with even more serious political asylum issues can successfully opera
30 Prinair : Yes...you fools move to expand IB opeations at HAV and provide more revenue for the oppresive dictatorship. While MIA might require visas and may not
31 Padcrasher : I love it!!! My reply has been erased. I used no foul language. And I'm branded a "redneck". Yet, the political comments of Senor PROSA remain. Did I
32 Bkkair : As far as the security some previous posters worried about, allowing a transit lounge at Miami ( which is guarded in any case by armed Customs officia
33 Heavymetal : Bkkair... It's very simple. An aircraft departing out of MIA for wherever carrying American citizens MUST adhere to US security proceedures. Transitin
34 Bkkair : Whether you transit in NRT, LHR, HKG, BKK or any airport worldwide you have to go through security screening during your transit stop. No problem with
35 Heavymetal : If you don't think there's logic in knowing that kind of information about someone coming into your country, even for twenty minutes...a country whose
36 Airzim : It is very easy for non-Yanks on this forum to bash the US when they don't like the policies of the government and start making ridiculous statements
37 MetalBird : I´m sory but I canot understand what can a transit passenger in a closed room (transit area in a airport) do that can make any harm to USA, this pass
38 Flymia : I dont think Iberia or American would alow it. If the gov made them move a major law suit would happen. Iberia should not move and the gov should not
39 PROSA : Yet, the political comments of Senor PROSA remain. America's Public Enemy #1 policy toward Cuba is a ridiculous Cold War relic that serves no useful p
40 Padcrasher : Prosa I'd love to respond to you but the "Editor" seems to only allow anti-American political posts in this aviation forum...From here on out I'll jus
41 DouglasDC8 : In regards to a transit lounge-I don't know of any airport in the United States that has one. If there are any please let me know where, just for my c
42 MAH4546 : DouglasDC8, I was under the impression that IB does/did have a transit lounge at MIA, but I am not sure. Though MIA is being replaced by a new $5.4B
43 Chepos : JFK has a transit lounge which EL AL uses for it's passengers that continue on to North American flights. About the Cuban American community, I have n
44 Airafriquedkr : MIA does have a transit lounge. It's right before you enter the immigration area where passports are checked. Any passengers transiting without a visa
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