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High Yield Business Passenger  
User currently offlineRogueTrader From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1358 times:

We hear a lot of talk about the coveted "high yield business passenger." Supposedly this person is the sole provider of airline profitability - when that occurs - and everyone seems to spend a lot of time arguing over what this person wants in air travel.

I think the late nineties may have seen the last of this creature. Times were exceptionally good, and corporations just paid whatever their travel departments, travel agents or sole airline provider told them to pay, almost without question.

I think they - the business flyer - are now wise to the fact that they've been subsidizing the coach pax , and the airlines, for years.

What do you think: will the 'high yield business passenger' maintain their full dominance in airline thinking?

kind regards,

RogueTrader


14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStretch 8 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2568 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

I think it may depend on the market. Within the U.S. domestic environment, ceratinly corporate travel has been and will continue to be held back. Upgrades to F class and shorter security lines are not the answers; business people just don't want or need to travel as much by air (given video conferencing, etc).
The true "high yield" may opt for corporate a/c (if available), or fractional ownership.

Across the Atlantic or Pacific, on the other hand, F and J fares are still too high; but Y class is just too awful, especially on an overnight flight, for a business person. One solution may be one of these new BA or UA daytime flights. From what I have heard, thay are only half full, and get you to LHR in time for a late dinner and full night's sleep in a proper bed. Go to work the next day in good shape (and fly Y to save the company $$).



Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1259 times:

Having led corporate business plans through several economic cycles, I can tell you that mgmt has a short memory. A recession with a focus on cust cutting will quickly be forgotten once the economy starts rolling. Figure in turnover/retirement/promotions etc....and the newer mgmt have no memory of the last recession.

The business traveller may be cost-cutting now...but could be back to f-classing it en masse in 12-24 months!

IMHO

Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1244 times:

Yyz717 has hit it on the head. I started my career on the opposite side of the fence from him, as a manager at nationwide travel management firm. I've implemented drastic staff reductions at one point (the Gulf war required us to drop 20% of staff and require all remaining staff to take a min. of 10days unpaid leave), only to turn around and go on emergency hiring binges because the economy exploded as quickly as it imploded. While today's (and likely tomorrow's) travel budgets are and will remain tighter than they have been historically, corp. travel managers also know that for those that need to travel (and 'face' time will always remain important), letting them complete that travel as comfortably as possible is important. Nothing tanks moral of the traveler quicker than being forced onto a no-frills carrier that doesn't meet their (the travelers) schedule.

So the demand will recover, to an extent. The key for the airlines will be maintaining the right mix and costs associated with serving that mix.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4467 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1241 times:

I wouldn't look for business travelers to be stampeding back to first class, even after this downturn ends. Management might have a short memory, but management also has more options than it has had in any previous economic cycle.

Low-fare air service is more widespread in the US than at any point in aviation history, and it's growing. Even perpetually-gouged markets like ROC and BUF are getting low-fare air service. Kodak and Xerox helped underwrite the AirTran travel bank at Rochester. 17 of Rochester's 25 largest travel markets (with notable exceptions like Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia) now have low-fare air service.

And these low-fare carriers are well-managed, high-quality operations which choose their markets carefully. They have FF programs (AirTran's will buy pax tickets on Cartel carriers to places FL doesn't go) and clean new aircraft.

The structure of the aviation market in the US is changing....high-quality low-fare carriers are here to stay. They bring fare relief on many markets, fare relief that corporate travel departments have plenty of motive to use.

I'd look for a moderate return of business travelers to the front cabin as the economy improves. They'll be more and more directed to low-fare carriers on routes where such carriers are available. And they will still have Cartel-carrier first and business class available on international routes where such service is economically viable. Also, Cartel-carrier regional affiliates will continue to be the only option to small cities, unless someone figures out how to apply the low-fare model to regional service.

Don Carty of AA acknowledged as much this week when he told employees that "fundamental changes" are needed at AA. He knows that corporations will be less willing to subsidize leisure travels, and the high cost structures of the Cartel carriers, in coming years--because they'll have choices.

Companies are businesses who must make money and produce value for shareholders. They are not welfare programs for the pre-deregulation cost structures of the Cartel-Six airlines.

Jim


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1201 times:

So there's hope yet Rogue that the highyield business travellers will return enabling you to remain in your cushy airline IT job for years to come. What a relief eh.

Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

eh, First Class upgrades and special security lines are a START due to the stupidity of the gvt w/ its security (anyone else think random selection @ the gate is dumb.. if they catch something @ the gate, then someone at the main security checkpoint isn't doing their job!)....

the high yield traveler is also being impacted by low fare carriers like Southwest, Spirit, Air Tran, and possibly Jetblue (most of the fares were already dirt cheap in most of their long haul markets anyway, with exceptions of JFK - Upstate NY).

-n


User currently offlineTNboy From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 1131 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1176 times:

The airlines seem committed to maintaining the front end, at least internationally, presumably because they know that any downturn in premium traffic is probably cyclical (although on the really long hauls, it is still very difficult to get premium seats at short notice.)
However, when there is a downturn, the carriers simply allow a few more award upgrades, rather than cut back the size of the product. I had thought that we may see a swing towards abandonment of First, in favour of an upgraded Business product internqttionally, but instead we seem to be going towards a fourth cabin. Looks like the airlines are confident of the yield, and the premium end is here to stay.
Bill



"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
User currently offlineRogueTrader From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1169 times:

TNboy,

I was really hoping you would elaborate on the history of business travel through the ages, as witnessed from your first hand perpsective. You can start with pre invention of the wheel (dragging by the hair) early efforts of service and bring us on through to the jet age.

kind regards,

RogueTrader


User currently offlineTNboy From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 1131 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 1130 times:

Rogue:
What an interesting concept. Sadly, my publisher wasn't quite as enthusiastic. He did, however, suggest that it might make a novel topic for some of my talks and lectures, but I don't know. I would have to illustrate the early years with lithographs and petroglyphs - not quite as arresting as the average powerpoint presentation, although it might go over at the more remote Lions or Rotary clubs.
A similar topic could be "My Rich and Full life in the olden days, before semi-retirement gave me time to discover the internet."
What did you do in those days?
Cheers
Bill



"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
User currently offlineBsergonomics From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1116 times:

Can I do a bit of "Bean Counter-Bashing" here? I can't claim that all business travellers are right up there at the cutting edge, but there are a large number whose decisions will make/lose shed loads of money. And some of the ridiculous decisions made by the accountants, in the interests of saving a few pennies in one area, can have drastic effects on other areas.

Just as a stupid example (or is it?):

LHR-JFK Business Class (Virgin) - £408

LHR-JFK Cattle Class with Virgin - £188
Night in hotel (with meal) - £200
Wages for extra travelling time (half a day) - £180
Total = £568

That said, the changes do provide the opportunity for a little hilarity for those around the unfortunate Downgraded. Like a friend of mine whose company changed from Business Class with BA to GO (A UK low cost airline). After checking in, he asked for directions to the business lounge. The check in lady paused for a few seconds, staring quizzically at him, and then asked, "Sir, have you flown with GO before?" He got the shock of his life when he boarded...



The definition of a 'Pessimist': an Optimist with experience...
User currently offlineRogueTrader From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1097 times:

Bsergonomics,

I'm not really sure I'm following your example with Virgin there. Are you saying that flying economy is actually more expensive than flying business?

kind regards,

RogueTrader


User currently offlineEal401 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1078 times:

It can be depending on the route;

E.g. Manchester, UK to Almaty, Kazakhstan:

Y class return ticket = £2000 or thereabouts.

We can get C class for £1300. However, this is a restricted ticket & there are only a few availible per flight.


User currently offlineBsergonomics From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

RogueTrader,

What I was explaining was that, after a long haul flight in Cattle Class, there's NO WAY I'd want to go into a meeting without a night's rest. I can't work, I can't sleep, so I'd have to stay in a hotel for a night after the flight.

Mainly because of the increased seat recline and width in Business Class, I find that I have enough room to work and can actually get some sleep (albeit not great). Therefore, although not ideal, I can go straight from the airport to the meeting.

Anecdote: I once did four days either in meetings, taxis or aeroplanes. No bed. Felt like Death afterwards, but got all the work done!

On short haul flights, we tend to use business class for the flexibility as much as the service. Also, to keep us in the manner to which we have become accustomed (and not run off to a competitor).



The definition of a 'Pessimist': an Optimist with experience...
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1031 times:

Bsergonomics just did a much better job of saying what I was trying to say earlier. Premium service/carriers really do fill a role in the business travel market, so the fares (high yield) associated with will always be in existance.

The new twist though, is with the availability, especially in the US, of high quality, high frequence 'discount' carriers, such as WN and B6, the ability of the majors to command the high yield fares on all or even as many routes routes as they used to, is no longer there, nor will it likely ever be.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
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