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Hawaiian's 767s  
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1570 times:

What made Hawaiian choose the 763ER as a DC-10 replacement? It is considerably smaller than the DC-10. The 764 would've been a better choice. Why didn't Hawaiian order the 764?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1403 times:

763s are cheaper... they are readily available from leasing companies...
dont they have a slightly greater range on them too, over the 764??
I think it was simply a matter of cost and size.
Maybe they needed to go a little smaller than the DC-10 to keep yields/load factors high.. a 777 would have been way too big... 763s are relatively cheap and available...

Maybe there is another reason, but i wouldnt know.

AA MD11


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1369 times:

Well, if they want get orders B767-400 and B777 aircraft as for Hawaiian Air. They need to be save as for money get new airplanes by B767-400 or B777-200 replace by DC-10 aircraft. I think way to better get more passengers into coach class and first class too get into HNL and OGG flight. Well, that is exactly I do think about flight will be full!! Can anyone who know about want get ordered by new aircraft!!! Thanks, Guys!

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1319 times:

I'm don't have a specific answer, but here's some things to ponder..

1) the per-mile costs for the 767 family is lower than the DC-10's. That's why the move to the twinjet.

2) While the 764 offers slightly greater capacity (about 20 seats), it's not clear that the cost per mile are better -- in fact, traditionally, longer range aircraft have worse per mile costs on shorter hauls because they have to be built more robustly for higher MTOW.

3) I'd be interested in knowning the capacity of Hawaiian's 763's... but I bet it is aroun 270 or so.

Steve


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

Okay, I'm a moron. Well, not entirely, except that the 764's have less range than the 763's, according to Boeing's site.

So, in short, it appears you're carrying quite a bit more weight per passenger on each flight (that is, total aircraft weight / total number of pax), and that is, indeed, less efficient.

Steve


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2561 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1273 times:

You guys pretty much hit the nail right on the head. There are many more factors to think about in a replacement airplane than a one for one exchange of seats. Aircraft acquisition cost, operating cost, route structure etc all come into the picture.

We bought the 767-300's because they were the best bargain for size, cost, maintenance, and so forth. In addition things like maintenance contracts and training contracts also enter into the final cost. Even if we don't carry as many people per plane, all we have to do is increase frequency to make up the difference. We've already done some of that now. With the DC-10's we had three daily LAX - HNL round trips. Starting this summer we move to four with the 767's. In the past we had eleven weekly SEA - HNL trips. Now with the 767 we are running one daily SEA - HNL and one daily SEA OGG (maui) trip for a total of fourteen weekly SEA trips. Smaller planes, but more frequency. And the good part is if the loads fall off we aren't losing as much money per plane as we would have with the DC-10.

If we had bought the 767-400 we would have had about 50 more seats per plane, but at a much higher acquisition cost, higher operating cost, and a bigger exposure to loss if the flight isn't full.

As for our seating capacity, it is 18 F/C, 234 Coach for a total of 252.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineAlaskaMVP From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

Another thing to point out is the other plane considered by Hawaiian was the 757, even smaller than the 763, obviously they were looking for frequency and more point to point routes. I'm still hoping to to see direct PDX-OGG!

HAL, btw, moved my vacation up into May, will be doing PDX-LIH & OGG-PDX on your fine airline in a few short weeks, very excited about experiencing the first class on the DC-10 before it goes away...


User currently offlineKKMolokai From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1180 times:

AA begins non-stop 757-200 service between LAX-LIH in May ... An alternate way to the islands from the west coast.


We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1608 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1127 times:

I know it's been said before, but where are the 767s that Hawaiian is flying comming from? Are they new a/c, leased, used etc? Just curious


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1115 times:

Also, Hawaiian is taking a mix of new and used 763s, from various leasing companies; as they wished to standardize on one type, and not many 764s are available, they settled on the 763 which was a good move. Also, as mentioned, they can increase the number of departures and better compete with other airlines while not increasing the total amount of seats in many of the markets that they serve.

I still think that we may see the 752 in HA colors in the future, it is common rated witht he 763 and is a very effecient aircraft for "thinner" routes from Hawaii to mainland cities such as Portland, Las Vegas, Phoenix and smaller California airports.


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2561 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1092 times:

Our first three 767's were new, leased through Ansett leasing. The next four (that we are getting right now) are older planes leased from LTU. The next nine are new, leased on alternate planes from Ansett and Boeing finance.

In the end we'll have four used and twelve new 767's. Of course there are rumors of more 767's and new 757's too. Hope so!

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1037 times:

Speaking of which, I saw an HA 767-300(ER) a couple of weeks ago when I saw the A340-600 prototype fly from SFO. They HA 763ER's definitely look very good.  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineHA2vegas From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1016 times:

HAL--

FYI there will be only 3 daily non-stops LAX-HNL on Hawaiian. The 4th was canceled for some reason, probably not enough aircraft.


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2561 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 961 times:

Actually, those flights weren't cancelled. Flights 17 & 18 begin operating LAX/HNL/LAX on June 15th as originally planned, making four round trips daily on that route.

The schedule to HNL (out of LAX) will now be flt 1 at 0855, flt 17 at 1010, flt 3 at 1205, and flt 9 at 1735. Also, flt 5 leaves for Maui at 1115. Gonna be busy at terminal 2!

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineJsmith From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 935 times:

HAL - it is Ansett Worldwide, not Ansett leasing that is leasing a number of B767 a/c to Hawaiian. There is no such company called Ansett leasing.

Thks


User currently offlineHA2vegas From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 879 times:

HAL, if you take a look at the OAG you'll see that almost all of flights 17/18 are discontinued. The only ones left are the few whose loads prevented combining pax with the other LAX-HNL flights. Unless the OAG and CRS systems are not yet updated, which doesn't make a lot of sense if you're trying to increase ASMs...

User currently offlineHerbman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 878 times:

This morning I saw the Hawaiian one with new livery sprayed on at the LTU maintenance hangar in DUS. (former LTU's 767)

Regards
Sebastian


User currently offlineAq737 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 831 times:

Are the 763s coming with the 777 style livery?

Mahalo,
Aq737


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2561 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 768 times:

HA2Vegas,
All I know is that our trips for June came out for us to bid on, and flights 17/18 are being flown as a daily turn starting the 15th, using DC-10's. A quick check showed the same thing on the OAG website.

Aq737: what do you mean by 777 livery? We have never had triple sevens.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineMiami1 From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 742 times:

I think Aq737 meant 777 style interior.....

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