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Skytrax / Alasta.nl Part 2  
User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Hi Members of this forum:

Skytrax is getting angry again!!!!!.
Last time they couldn't take legal actions against me and now they are trying it again.

I made up a voting Form and Banner and it seems that they are getting pissed off about that.

This is the banner:



I have check my complete site and I am sure that I am clean of any Skytrax stuff on my site.

They claim that everything is from Skytrax even the official Press pictures of the Airlines ( they must be sick )

* I don't have a Star ranking but an ATC Star Ranking.
* There are no Skytrax pictures on my site !!!!!!!!
* I am making surveys for over 4 years and those are the points that I always used.

Does anybody know another name for the Pacific or for North America, because they seem to claim the name Pacific and North America as well ??????

I placed the letter which was addressed to me below.

What do you think about this ?????

Please check my site:

http://www.alasta.nl/index1.html

If you find something that belongs to Skytrax please let me know !!!!!!!

LETTER FROM SKYTRAX TO ME

Mr Smulders,

I am advised you failed to respond to any of Peter Miller's earlier
communications about items on your site that have been copied directly
from Skytrax.

This covers not only remaining picture items, but page content and star
ranking details. Whilst it is very flattering you have now copied the
Survey concepts, even using the same categories and in many cases
wording and page layout, this falls within intellectual property rights
that you fail to have researched.

I am also fascinated how you can claim to have star ranked so many
airlines when you described your operation to Peter Miller as a "one
man" set up only ? As a 1 man operation, you would have to flown and
studied each carrier, and assuming you travel as Mr A Smulders it will
not be difficult to get a small selection of clients to run checks on
the honesty of claims you make.

Anyway, please take this as confirmation that your failure to comply
with the earlier verbal agreement not to copy Skytrax concepts, data and
other programme details has prompted my Directors to instruct our
lawyers to proceed with legal action.

This will probably be passed to our lawyers Rotterdam office, and they
will be seeking payment of both sides legal costs incurred in proceeding
and completing this action.

sincerely


David Watson
SKYTRAX


21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

I support neither Alasta (who seem extremely unreliable IMO) nor Skytrax (for being the most arrogant and ignorant company with regards to internet practicalities ever from the communications I've had with it recently).

How do they have lawyers in Rotterdam anyway? Isn't it more like, "we will be hiring lawyers in Rotterdam".



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Skytrax:



Alasta



Skytrax:



Alasta:




Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

Yeh Singapore are but it seems always the same.
If somebody wants to have there own voting, they are not allowed form Skytrax and they claim everything.

( even names from parts of the World )

I am really getting sick about this that I was even thinking about placing the private email addresses from the Skytrax Board Members.

You don't have to agree with me, but I am doing my best for the Airline industry.

I even let other people vote for the best airline to get a even more correct ranking.

I hope that they are going to take legal actions against me. As a Journalist I will get lots of publicity in the media.





User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

Ok Singapore air that picture came from the Press department of Lauda Air. That has been send directly to me.

The First and Second Picture are not the same at all.
I think those two pictures belong more to the Olympic Games than to Skytrax or Alasta


User currently offlineAviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

I am not defending anyone here, as I think both Alasta and Skytrax are flawed in their approaches to the rating of their airlines.

Anyhoo.....Skytrax does have a point about one thing.

They have (apparently...according to their website) trademarked "Star Ranking". If I were you I would change this to "Star Rating" on your site. "Star Rating" is a very generic term/phrase which is used worldwide (especially when talking of hotels), and would probably be impossible to trademark. But you should probably trademark ATC Star Rating to protect yourself in that instance.

If the photos you say were provided by Lauda Air, were provided by Lauda Air, and you can prove this, then there is absolutely no need to remove it from your site. In fact, maybe by adding beneath the photo "Photo courtesy of Lauda Air" you are making Skytrax look like even bigger idiots by them trying to claim copyright over a photo they don't even own.

There are other points which I believe Skytrax doesn't have a leg to stand on in their threat to you, but make sure you mention to them this:

and assuming you travel as Mr A Smulders it will
not be difficult to get a small selection of clients to run checks on the honesty of claims you make.


I don't see anywhere on your site where you claim that YOU have flown all the airlines which are rated/ranked. So in this instance, they are talking belony. But make sure you let them know, that if they attempt to get information from an airline about a passenger (either past, future or present), and the airline gives them that information, the airline is liable to be sued for various breaches (which may differ from country to country). From what I understand, from my time in the industry, is that ANY passenger information is only able to be given to a source other than the passenger, with a court order.

I say call their bluff 100%


User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2040 times:

Thanks Aviatsiya.ru for the information, but it is always the same with Skytrax, as I said before, they even claim that I should not mention the regions in my voting form ( f.e Europe, North America, Central America, South America, Asia, Africa and Australia/pacific )

You must be sick if you claim this as copyrights.

It's a very good idea to chance it to ATC Star Rating even I find the name ATC Star Ranking a lot different than Star Ranking. I let the people know that it is not the ranking from Skytrax bye mention my own name in front.

I hope they are going to take legal action.
Nice publicity for us !!!!



User currently offlineKrisworldB777 From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 571 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

Skytrax is an absolute farce set up by the airlines themselves. I wouldn't take one word notice and hope to see them out of business soon because they appear to be the biggest bunch of bloody idiots i've ever seen. Keep up the good work Skippy777, make them embarrassed and push them out of the way.

User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 2004 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Why? Why? Why? Why? Why lots of people sue other people? That's VERY STUPID and IDIOT! Why they sue everyone who hasn't done anything wrong?


The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

Thx Krisworld for the support I sure hope that they take legal actions against Alasta.

I wanted to post the private email addresses from the board members here ( I have got them all ) and maybe bomb them with complains, but it won't be nice to use Johan's site for this battle.

But if people ask me by mail I am always open to give some information.

I also believe that Emirates pays a lot of money to the Skytrax site. They mail me and soon after that I get the same response from Skytrax. I don't have hard evidence but sure hope to get this soon. I don't say Emirates is a bad airline ( I liked them a lot 3 years ago ) but to say that they are the number one !!!!!!!!!

In my voting Emirates is not the high on the list.

Anyway I sure hope that you all know more sites where I can post my voting. Sure now I want to get the best out of it. So if you now any sites where they can place my banner, you are always welcome to mail me

The voting stays until the end of November 2002


User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

The boardmemembers do not respond to my letter.
We will see what happens. I will keep you informed.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

I would like to extend my support to you on this matter. I think you should kick their ignorant and unintelligent arses.

How does Alasta.nl make money? Same way with Skytrax?



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

No I don't get paid at all. I work as a journalist and that's my way of making money. My work pays for the tickets and I do the surveys. I also get sponsering from major Companies ( non Airline ) to advise them which airline suites them the best. I also get some free tickets from airline companies to perform these kinds of surveys, but even than free tickets doesn't mean a good report. Writting down the full story is is my opinion still the best. That is also why SQ doesn't support me with free tickets anymore. I wrote a bad article about them and they were upset, but it was the trued and that is where I stand for.

User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

Skytrax is trying to mail me as another person, what a farce

See this fletter came from Jeff Barber ( skytrax ) jeff_c_barber@yahoo.com

DB information:

Query the Ripe Whois Database
Search for

% This is the RIPE Whois server.
% The objects are in RPSL format.
% Please visit http://www.ripe.net/rpsl for more information.
% Rights restricted by copyright.
% See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/copyright.html

inetnum: 212.228.0.0 - 212.228.255.255
netname: DEMON-DIAL-UP
descr: DEMON INTERNET
descr: Static Dial-Up Assignments
descr: Not registered individually
descr: Contact info refers to ISP
country: GB
admin-c: DHG5-RIPE
tech-c: DHG5-RIPE
tech-c: DIHD-RIPE
remarks: http://www.demon.net/
remarks: NCC#1998035254
remarks: =====================================
remarks: Send Abuse Reports to abuse@demon.net
remarks: =====================================
status: ASSIGNED PA
notify: hostmaster@demon.net
mnt-by: AS2529-MNT
mnt-lower: AS2529-MNT
mnt-routes: AS2529-MNT
changed: hostmaster@demon.net 19980312
changed: sam.bradford@demon.net 20020410
source: RIPE

route: 212.228.0.0/15
descr: DEMON-INT-NET
origin: AS2529
mnt-by: AS2529-MNT
remarks: Spam & Suspicious Activity Reports: abuse@demon.net
changed: andrewb@demon.net 19981110
changed: sam.bradford@demon.net 20010614
source: RIPE

role: Demon Hostmaster Group
address: Demon Internet / Thus plc
address: Gateway House
address: 322 Regents Park Road
address: Finchley
address: N3 2QQ London
address: UNITED KINGDOM
phone: +44 845 272 0666
fax-no: +44 20 8371 1285
e-mail: hostmaster@demon.net
admin-c: AP6129-RIPE
admin-c: MB4
admin-c: JS18376-RIPE
admin-c: WD2653-RIPE
tech-c: MD1601-RIPE
tech-c: BB837-RIPE
tech-c: LD127-RIPE
tech-c: SAMB
nic-hdl: DHG5-RIPE
notify: hostmaster@demon.net
mnt-by: AS2529-MNT
changed: sam.bradford@demon.net 20010410
changed: sam.bradford@demon.net 20020501
source: RIPE

role: Demon Internet Helpdesk
address: Demon Internet / Thus plc
address: Gateway House
address: 322 Regents Park Road
address: Finchley
address: N3 2QQ London
address: UNITED KINGDOM
remarks: 24x7 Operations Helpdesk
phone: +44 845 272 0666
fax-no: +44 20 8371 1167
e-mail: dsoc@demon.net
admin-c: DHG5-RIPE
tech-c: AF10693-RIPE
tech-c: JB222-RIPE
nic-hdl: DIHD-RIPE
notify: hostmaster@demon.net
mnt-by: AS2529-MNT
changed: sam.bradford@demon.net 20011016
changed: sam.bradford@demon.net 20011019
source: RIPE

Same internet provider as Skytrax and this IP address is based in the Uk and not the USA.

This letter was also mailed to info@airlinequality.com

If this person is not working for Skytrax it is a poor attempt of trying to get a job ( SPAM )

The letter as send by him is placed here:

Hi,

I found your site by mistake just now. It seems to be
a poor attempt to copy the Skytrax site.

I guess in Europe you don't have the same controls we
have, because it seems to be unadulterated conceptual
breach of copyright. I have posted a warning message
across our US network, as one of my specialties is
advising on plaguerism of business concepts.

To the guys at Skytrax I have copied this to - keep up
the good work, and suggest you look up this Alasta sie
and contact me for any advice I can offer.

regards

Jeff Barber

My answer:  Pissed

Hi Jeff,

Our should I say college of Skytrax as you can see below.
Amerika my ass, United Kingdom Demon Internet services.
The same internet provider as Skytrax.
We are not a copy of Skytrax, Skytrax is trying to copy us and they do a
very poor job.

Don't make those jokes, I am writting surveys myself for over four Years and No I don't get paid from the Airlines.
Skytrax is getting paid by the airlines and that is the difference.

"To the guys at Skytrax I have copied this to - keep up the good work, and
suggest you look up this Alasta sie and contact me for any advice I can offer ".

I will give you some advise.

The middle finger.

Check this


ATC






User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1892 times:

Most immature. That is the stupidest thing yet.

Facts:

1) Skytrax are immature
2) Skytrax are arrogant
3) Due to point 2, Skytrax underestimate others
4) Skytrax have no conception of internet basics whatsoever
5) Skytrax employees seem stupid.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offline9V-SVE From Singapore, joined Nov 2001, 2066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

I used to admire Skytrax. Now they are ignorant, MUCH too biased, and not allowing other airline ranking sites to do their own stuff.

User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Yeh the are really sick there.


User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

Skippy,

If I were you, I'll wait till I see something concrete from them in the form of some papers, and/or evidence. In the meantime, I shall just keep all correspondence with them in hardcopy (printouts), and maybe just seek some legal advise with your lawyer and perhaps just update him with whatever is going on.

Also regarding the email of Jeff Barber, I would seriously *not* reply to any of his email as this could be turned-around against you, and shows your unprofessionalism. Perhaps an courtesy reply mail, "Thank you for your viewing our website, and we appreciate your comments regarding how similar our site is to Xxxx. We will investigate the matter to the best of our ability and attempt to resolve it in the shortest possible time. Please accept our apologies for any inconvinence caused to you. Thank you".... and after that just send his email to the Trash Bin  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Well, it's always good to have competition.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Have fun
Tsentsan



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineBoeing777/747 From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

Jezzzzzzzzzzzz isn't the world big enough for 2 company's that publish there voting??. I do believe that some people think they own the world. And they only people they make happy are the lawyers. Isn't it for everyone's best interest that the airline's are checked and if they deliver what they promise????.

I must admit that everything that skytrax claims is kinda funny So if I am right and my name was Asia they will take legal action toward me to??? lol

I can't wait to see skytrax or alasta's remarks

The Saga continues


User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Thanks Tsentsan for the information.
I don't care if there will a courtcase, I will win and get all the + publicity and Skytrax the - publicity.


User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (12 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1840 times:

Skippy777 -

Good luck in the case.

BTW, do you know where I could find any surveys wat what biz travellers wanted in their air planes in terms of IT services?

Thanks
Tsentsan



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

I would say Skytrax ( a very bad answer from me )

I believe it al ldepends on what kind of Business traveller you are !!!

KLM had there research last year and most of the European Business Traveller wanted to rest and not work. But there will always been Business Travellers who like to work.

But I would say a fast internet connection would be great. I hope that the test with Boeing and Lufthansa will work.

Then it is possible for me to upload digital picture to the airliners.net site will I am still onboard.

The future will tell I think.


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