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CI Reconsiders A330 Order, A Hope For 777  
User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Back in March, China Airlines has announced to place an order for up to 16 A330-300 (including options) this year. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/773569/

However, according to Flight International, the carrier seems like having problems to decide whether to go ahead ordering A330-300 or B777-200/300 for A300 replacement.

The CI A300 replacement is one of the most fierce competition between Airbus and Boeing in Asian region. China Airlines currently own 7 A300-600R, and another 5 are leased. The order is expected up to 14 firm orders, plus 6 options. Delivery dates is 2005.

CI placed an option for 4 A330 in 1999, along with 744F/A343/738 orders, but this was cancelled in 2000 as CI is looking for a large regional jet order.

Airbus currently offers CI for trade in the A300s for A330s, plus converting the A300 to A300F as a regional freighter which could become part of CI Cargo's fleet.

Boeing is pursuading CI trading its A340 for B777. If this happens, the order for 777 is up to 27, including options. (20 for the A300 replacement, and 7 for A340-300 replacement)

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

I wonder what is making them change their mind  Insane

User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2049 times:

When will the decision be made?


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2019 times:

I'm just wondering whether Boeing still hasn't enough with those deals...more than half of SIA's A340 still need to find a new owner...

User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4160 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

What do they understand under the term "regional jet order"? Doesn´t really make much sense to order RJs to replace A330 orders. Anyone having additional info on this?

I don´t think that Boeing will be happy with another 7 A340-300, where would they unload them? And: how long will share-holders accept Boeing to have around 10 A340-300 sitting idle in the desert, only costing money?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offline9V-SVA From Singapore, joined Aug 2001, 1860 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

I really do not think Boeing has that much A340s on its hands now. 3 have gone to CX and 3 have gone to Khalifa. I believe they only have around 3 more A340 aircraft to go.

9V-SVA



9V-SVA | B772ER
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4160 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

Nope, should be 11. 15 A343 had been delivered to SIA with two additional A343 going directly from TLS to Boeing. Makes a total of 17.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

A good possibility, I think, is pushing most of those A340s on Garuda. They already operate the A330, and have expressed interest in the A332 and A343. They need to retire their DC10s and 742s soon, as well as new airliners for the international routes they continue to reinstate, and the 777s they have on order they really have no way to pay for, even with their extremely positive progress elsewhere. Seems to me it's an overlooked possibility, but perhaps I am crazy.



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5083 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

When will the final decision be made?


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Keep them coming  Big grin
It starts to get amuzing. Every once in a while an Airbus order is being reconsidered in favor of Boeing.
remember Qantas reconsidering the A330 and SIA the A340-500. Virgin Atlantic was going to replace their A340-600 with a 777-300 order. Who's next?



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineHkg_clk From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 999 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

I certainly hope CI stays with their Airbus plans. It's getting really boring to hear about airlines placing orders for a type, then changing their minds shortly afterwards. Orders nowadays don't seem to mean much!


See my homepage for a comprehensive guide to spotting and photography at HKG
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6492 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

We'll just have to see what happens. It would be great to see another carrier getting 777s. I can think of other carriers that could use second hand A343s; JAT, PIA and Air India. Boeing has placed the SQ A343s and hasn't had any problems yet, they have been placed as soon as they been handed over by SQ. None parked in the desert as far as I know. The777Man


Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

I'm wondering whether the US government has anything to do with this; after all, Taiwan owes her defence to the US.

Cheers


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

they are having problems deciding a330's for 777's? no brainer. the 777 is the cadillac of the skys,why do you want a honda?





ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

Well, Honda's are more fuel efficent cars than Cadillacs, offering better fuel economies therefore enabling you to drive further before refuelling. They also cost less than the Caddy for equal if not better performance  Big grin  Big thumbs up


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineAirbus_A340 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1560 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1757 times:

I sure hope they will stick to the Airbus A330...that livery would look so great on that aircraft!

Maybe it's just a threat to get Airbus to lower their prices even further.
Trevor



People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
User currently offlineRickB From United Kingdom, joined May 2003, 243 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1746 times:

Presumably if they have already ordered the A330 then they will of paid a non-refundable deposit - that will have to be a hell of a deal off Boeing for them to cancel the order (or just political pressure from Washington)


User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1741 times:

Boeing is pursuading CI trading its A340 for B777. If this happens, the order for 777 is up to 27, including options. (20 for the A300 replacement, and 7 for A340-300 replacement)

OK, so thats more 777's than Airbus' order of 14 or so A330's, and what about the A300's being converted into A300F's??? Sounds like Boeing will be giving a HUGE discount on those 777's if the order goes ahead...


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1682 times:

Oh yes, I'm sure it is the US government forcing China Airlines to buy the 777. It couldn't possibly be the merits of the 777....  Insane

(I wonder if the US government MADE Singapore get rid of their A340s in favor of the 777 too? Damn US government...)


User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

Travelin Man, i don't think anyone here is discounting anything, we're just discussing all the factors which we think might come into play...of course politics may have nothing to do with the outcome of this order whatsoever-but this is a discussion board, and I raised the point for 2 reasons;

1) America plays a large role in Taiwan's defence; does it therefore tie its defence to certain conditions (answer: probably, because it happens with European aid to African countries, and in many other scenarios...)

2) What are other people's thoughts on this? If you don't agree, that's great, but why not elaborate your opinion with some thoughts as to why you disagree?

I promise you this is in no way any attempt to incite a silly one vs other thread...I've seen plenty of those, and have never taken part in them; I have no axe to grind, and no agenda whatsoever (other than to discuss aviation matters)...

Therefore I should be able to raise a political question without being shot down and accused of trying to bash one company or government against the other.

Cheers


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1628 times:

Sorry, but I've seen too many threads which denegrate into A vs. B, and saying the US government is somehow applying pressure on Taiwan to "buy US" frankly discounts the merits of the 777. We can sit here and ponder if the US government is pressuring Taiwan, but to what end? None of us has any information, so we'd be merely speculating, and trust me, it would turn into a war.

That's why I brought up the point about Singapore and THEIR A340s. I don't think anyone here thinks it was US government pressure that cause SQ to change their minds about their aircraft choice. Why should it be any different here?

Speculating on US government pressure only invites a war, because frankly the only thing people here can do without hard information is speculate.

The 777 is a very good aircraft (as is the A330). Perhaps CI has reevaluated the type of aircraft they will need for future growth? Could it possibly be that simple?


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1607 times:

ryanb741,
i was not talking about the cost of fuel or a matter of being more fuel efficient,i am talking about it being the greatest airplane ever made,comfort and just a solid plane.

hondas are pretty cool being that i own one,but to have a caddy would be a better car and awe yes it's american made!!!

lol,
ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1593 times:

'We can sit here and ponder if the US government is pressuring Taiwan, but to what end? None of us has any information, so we'd be merely speculating, and trust me, it would turn into a war.'

What can I say? I totally agree!  Big thumbs up

I would still love to know though...(and not just all of what comes from the US side!)



User currently offlineYak42 From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 800 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1573 times:

Well Cadilacs, the Americans love them but no one else seems to. Just like the 777 I suppose.
I've only ever seen one of these things in the UK and it was probably an American driving it. They really have to push these B777s on foreigners for some reason though.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1576 times:

"American ignorance will never cease to exist...but such a mentality has only one result: painful own goals...and we have seen many of those..."

Udo, please stay on topic.

Thanks!  Smile


25 Joni : Travelling man, The idea that the US might pressure Taiwan to drop the Airbus orders in favour of the 777 isn't so far-fetched, considering that was
26 Greg : I'm not sure that a nation promoting it's goods and services is such a bad thing. Of course the US would use diplomatic pressure to help sell Boeing j
27 Udo : Travelin man, I stayed well on topic as I just commented the post of UAL777whateverhisnamewas. Unfortunately, many Americans just seem to regard every
28 N79969 : Capt. Picard, you raise a very valid point. Because of the dollars/euros involved, jobs, and prestige, politicians lobby for their constituent aircraf
29 Travelin man : Unfortunately, many Americans just seem to regard everything as inferior which is not from the US...an ignorance which is not only dumb, but also dang
30 Udo : Well I pretty much expected these replies. 1. To find out who builds the best cars, the question is not necessarily who produces most cars. Everybody
31 Chiawei : CI does have a lgeitimate reason to reconsider A340. A340 has to make some short hop to HKG. A340 is not as good as 777 on such route. Most likely wit
32 Travelin man : "And if you read any neutral and objective car comparison you will find out who leads the field of technology and quality." Well, according to JD Powe
33 Jiml1126 : A report that didn't relates to CI order gives me a feeling that CI might order A330 because of Government's pressure. Taiwan recently failed to join
34 N79969 : Taiwan is always under China's shadow and has to fight for diplomatic recognition. The US closed its embassy in Taipei in the 1970s. Taiwan, for valid
35 Greg : Thankfully, those BMW modles are still DESIGNED in Germany--and only assembled in the US. Engines and transmissions are all German built. In fact...on
36 Ual777contrail : udo whateveryournameis, you have got serious issues,by me compairing the two cars.(just compairing) i have list two products that are so diffrent,like
37 N79969 : China hassles countries that recognize Taiwan diplomatically. I think Taiwan knows that Airbus and Europeans are more concerned with selling to mainla
38 B-HOP : I think it would be a bit stupid if CI switch side from A340 to 777, since they have already invested in parts and Sim's, buying 777 would mean write
39 N79969 : B-HOP, actually what I meant is that if 777 replaces the 330/340 you can have one engine type- (e.g. GE90, Trent, or PW)- for that niche. If you have
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