Jjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1626 times:
The only thing worse than a scared pilot with a gun is a disabled pilot being removed from the controls of Afghanistan's newest guided missile system.
There are risks inherent in letting people fly aircraft full of other people and their property. There are also risks inherent in weapons of ANY kind. American's need a spine and a willingness to accept responsibility and risk before and REAL progress beyond the cheap facade we now have will be made.
Capt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1616 times:
Well, I'd like to be convinced first (if at all possible) of the merits of aircrew being armed; my instincts tell me it isn't a good idea, and that it is better that the aircrew remain in the flightdeck at all times, whilst attempts are made to prevent freaks from boarding an aircraft in the first place.
Padcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1614 times:
I'm 6'2 240lbs. I would have no problem taking a weapon from some 100lb female pilot as she walks from gate to gate. Why would you introduce weapons in a secure enviroment? The doors will be bullet proof eventually.
If someone gives you a problem in back, turn it upside down.
This is why we don't let prison guards carry weapons inside. Criminal/Terrorist would love for someone to carry in the weapons for them.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1579 times:
I agree with Padcrasher. By letting pilots have guns, you are solving a hijacker's #1 logistical problem. The people who planned the 9/11 attacks are genocidal not merely homicidal. What if the hijackers grabbed the infants on a plane and threatened to kill them all if the pilot didn't surrender his/her weapon? What is a pilot to do? He/she cannot surrender the gun in theory. But faced with actual situation, what would one do? There are hundreds of bad scenarios that come out of having guns on a plane. How would the government regulate it? Resources are strained as is.
Mlsrar, you must be joking about the 'ripe for deletion' business. Right?
Hkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1230 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1585 times:
I personally thought it was a bad idea. I'm glad they've ruled to not allow pilots to carry guns with them on duty. It's not necessary to arm the flight crew. A gun in the cockpit (say that over & over again, sounds very disconcerting) would most likely cause needless distraction & anxiety and that would negatively impact the pilot's performance. And even if the pilots were comfortable with this, just what would having a gun in the cockpit accomplish? Instead why not focus resources on reinforcing the cockpit doors to strengthen them & make them bulletproof, so that no unauthorized person could gain access into the cockpit? There are better ways to deal with the issue of air safety than having to resort to arming pilots.
I’m a realist & understand this is a sensitive topic in the US, but I hope people can understand my viewpoint. If the DOT did allow pilots to carry firearms, I would’ve been disappointed but would’ve understood their reasoning. I just think it’s not the right path to take in tackling air safety.
CMK10 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 513 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1549 times:
I think pilots should have been given the option to have guns. There should be one gun in the cockpit, locked up and only the captian and first officer have the key, the gun is NOT removed from the aircraft.
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
MD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1324 posts, RR: 21 Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1561 times:
Does anyone one here realize that guns were allowed in US cockpits until the 1970's? Many, many pilots carried personal sidearms. Up until the 1950's pilots were REQUIRED to be armed if they carried the US mail. So it's been done before and I've NEVER heard any instance of an accidental discharge or any other supposed grave danger. Military pilots carry loaded sidearms into combat and have since the airplane was invented. And I've never heard of an aircraft lost due to a accidental pistol discharge.
What would a gun in the cockpit accomplish? Deterrence. Terrorists will be less inclined to rush a cockpit door knowing they face a gun on the other side. And should they chose to rush a cockpit the strapped in flight crew will actually have a chance to live.
Taking a pistol from a "100lb female pilot" as she walks down the concourse will not be easy if the sidearms are issued for each flight or kept on the aircraft. There are logistical procedures that can make sure the firearms stay where they need to be.
UAL 777 Contrail - You are a pilot basher. Your "so called professionals cave under pressure" comment is typical of other bits you have written. What's the problem? Do we make too much money? Was a pilot mean to you?
Padcrasher. "turn it upside down"? Are you aware that a jetliner cannot be yanked around like a fighter? Excessive manoeuvring to disable terrorists will probably kill everyone on board when the airframe breaks up or the wings come off. You just can't split-S a 767.
If offered the training to carry a sidearm I do not know if I will accept. (The program as proposed is voluntary.) I really have made up my mind since it is all talk just now. BUT I know it would be a deterrent. AND I trust my fellow airman.
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 54 Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1531 times:
This is a typical American way to deal with a problem - 'ahh just stick a gun in the cockpit and everything will be ok'- WAKE UP - it's this attitude that caused the problems in the first place....when will you realise that fighting fire with fire only gets you burned......
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
BA DC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1525 times:
I agree completely with Leezyjet, this is typical American response, i.e. just shoot it or give someone a gun and everything is ok. It must also be remembered that putting a gun aboard the cabin of a civil aircraft is illegal in a number of countries and therefore even if this was made law it could only be operated domestically...
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 54 Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1502 times:
Thanx BA DC-10....I'm just waiting for the yanks to see my post - should get the sparks flying
Was just thinkin.....In most Cockpit's, there is a rather large fire-axe - if the crew don't get chance to reach for that - how they going to get chance to reach for a gun ??? anyone actually thought of that ???
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
Ual777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1491 times:
i am not a complete pilot basher,i work with pilots on a daily basis and i see the way they behave and i have formed my own opinions of that particular job group.if you dont like it then dont respond.i will give my opinion of a topic without feeling like i may be making a few people angry.and i would hope you would feel free to express yourself with writing your opinions for all of us to see.
when a pilots ego is bigger than his paycheck then i have a problem with them.the way agents at UNITED and other airlines that i have friends working for get treated by pilots should not surprise you.this isnt when grampa flew the old super connies when flying was a very prestigious way to travel.pilots have braught it upon themselves,they are in fact overpaid.an i jeoulus of them,no not really.between my wife and i both working for the airline and a few real estate investments we are doing fine.
an i bitter? yes maybe a little. "summer from hell" ring a bell? thanks to UAL'S lovely and very forgetful pilots, we as CSR'S went through the wringer for them.yes i guess i am in a way a pilot basher.and by your name md88captain i havent had the pleasure of dealing with you.but i will say when you want me to issue an omc card you will always find it in your heart to call me sir.when you dont need a thing......well you will ignore me like i dont exsist.so yes,most of you fly boys do irritate me,will i still help you if you need help?sure i dont have anything against you persay just when you don the stripes and let your ego fly.
and like the last post before me said,we as americans do result to force in these situations.i disagree with the comments made by leezyjet,if these planes would have slammed into buckingham palace or another landmark those comments wouldnt have been made.your BA,VS,BD pilots would have maybe said the same thing about carry guns.
cheers, ual 777 contrail
Flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6768 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1458 times:
First all aircraft should have bullet proof doors like Jet Blue. Then like UA the pilots should have Stung guns or som sort of protection in the Airplane. And what about the fire extingisher in the cockpit. And if none of these things work wich is very unlikely then i would have guns. But only with proper trainning.
Excuse my spelling.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Soku39 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1797 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1448 times:
I personally think it was a good decision to not give pilots guns. Only bad things could come of it. A stun gun maybe but if you want to secure it correctly that means its gonna take time to get it unsecured and fire to fire it even if a pilot had a fast reaction time.
Plus what do you think the odds that terrorists are gonna try this again if I were them I'd keep it random. Spend money and time strengthening other infrastructure
Fokker Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1436 times:
I believe most of our pilots are military reservists or retired military. They are already trained in the proper use of firearms. It would not have been a big deal for
them to carry. As a mechanic that picks up and delivers several aircraft a day at the gates. I have lost count of how many crash axes I have had to remove from between the captain's seat and the center pedestal. It's obvious that the flight crews want to be armed, but the U.S. Government has again bowed down to the vocal minority.
To BA DC-10
When Hitler decided that he wanted London for a summer retreat. The Brits came crying to us for arms. Individual U.S. citizens came to their rescue by shipping them their own personal firearms. When the unpleasantries were over the British Government
AGAIN disarmed their loyal subjects. For being such a cultured bunch, you sure are slow learners.