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Possible HKG-TPE Increase For JAA/TG/SIA  
User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 969 times:

According to UDN News, one of Hong Kong's former aviation authority officials has told the media that IF the talks between Taiwan and Hong Kong over the Taiwan-HK air traffic was not be able to settle down by June 30, it is considering to allow Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways, and Japan Asia Airways to increase flights between Taiwan and Hong Kong.

It is expected that these 3 airlines will together add at least 100-150 weekly flights (100-150 weekly flights is the figure of the current flights flown by CI and CX) from July 1, if the talks between Taiwan and Hong Kong is not successful. The situation will become the Korean version, as only foreign airlines are allowed to fly between Taiwan and Korea.

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 940 times:

This all sounds like a big mess !!

User currently offlineSingapore 777 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 924 times:

How is it that while Cathay or China Airlines or Eva Air cannot resume flights between Hong Kong and Taipei (or are they already in effect?) that SIA, TG and JAL are allowed to? Is there some stipulation in the agreement contradicting this?

User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 916 times:

It appears that HK claims once the talk is not being able to settled down by June 30, it'll allow the airline that holds 5th freedom and currently operating between Hong Kong and Taiwan to increase the flights, in order to reduce the chaos for Taiwan-HK travel.

User currently offlineCathay250 From Hong Kong, joined Aug 1999, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 910 times:

Totally nonsense.
Let's see, even the talk is not going settle down by 30 June, it will only be extended. Allowing other airlines to increase their flight to replace CX,CI, BR & KA is just nonsense. Not bad if it's a joke!


User currently offline9V-SPK From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 904 times:

"It is expected that these 3 airlines will together add at least 100-150 weekly flights (100-150 weekly flights is the figure of the current flights flown by CI and CX) from July 1, if the talks between Taiwan and Hong Kong is not successful. The situation will become the Korean version, as only foreign airlines are allowed to fly between Taiwan and Korea."

A bit impossible i guess, unless you're just saying that SQ, TG and JAA ARE replacing CX KA etc. Also for your information, B772 has replaced the B744 on HKG-TPE, flight 3 times a week. Probably due to demand as there are no first class passengers on most of the flights.

Best Regards


User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1518 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 886 times:

Hmm I think this is quite quite impossible! I think the message they're giving out is that "we're not afraid of the breaking down of the talk, we've got other ways"...

If this happens, CX will also lose their TPE-NRT/KIX/NGO/FUK routes as well...

In short, Taiwan wants to increase the level of the negotiation as much as possible and Hong Kong (under the instruction of Beijing) wants to lower the level of the negotiation as much as possible. That's what's the problem lies...

Jimmy


User currently offlineAirbus A3XX From Australia, joined May 1999, 507 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 875 times:

I think both CX and CI would collapse if they lose their HKG-TPE route....

User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13737 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 867 times:

Wow! Do Japan Asia Airways (Part of JAS?) doing a HKG - TPE - HKG route now or will it be a new one for them?

Good for Singapore Airlines and TG as well. This will probably bring prices lower due to competition which would be very good for the Hong Kong and Taiwanese consumers.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineB-HOP From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2000, 623 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 857 times:

Well CI in return would lose HKG-SIN/BKK/KUL


Live life to max!!!
User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 864 times:

There's absolutely no way a new pact won't be reached before June 30, as both sides are aware that their respective carriers' most profitable routes will no longer be able to be operated by them. I'll be shocked if there's still no deal before June 30. The negotiations are airline-to-airline, so I'm confident that they will come to some sort of agreement, at least a temporary one if necessary. There's too much at stake here, especially for CX & CI! CX & CI will lose a ton of money. HKG-TPE contributes something like 20-25% to CX's overall earnings.

Both Beijing & Taiwan are at fault for this mess, but Hong Kong will end up losing the most. Beijing should be more flexible & grant the HK government permission to engage the Taiwanese government over this air services matter. Nah that would happen only in a world where pigs could fly. Why is Taiwan insisting on government-level talks when they know the HK government isn't allowed to engage the Taiwanese government?

Stupid bloody politics.  Angry

Hkg82.


User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1518 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 836 times:

Singapore_Air,

I think it would be quite impossible for SQ and TG to operate 13 daily TPE-HKG flights. The SQ HKG-TPE flights are an extension of their SIN-HKG flight and TG's HKG-TPE flights are an extension of their BKK-HKG flights. Would TG and SQ be operating 13 daily BKK/SIN-HKG/TPE flights a day? I think not...

Also, JAA is a part of JAL, not JAS.

Hkg82,

Well you see that all boils down to that Beijing doesn't recognise Taiwan as a separate country... and Hong Kong is fully controlled by Beijing... So they'll have to do as told... yeah stupid politics really...

Jimmy


User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 845 times:

Air Taiwan:
Exactly. The whole issue with Beijing not recognising Taiwan as a sovereign nation & Taiwan wanting to be independent has created this political deadlock between the two sides with Hong Kong in the middle. If Beijing preaches 'One Country, Two Systems' they should give the Hong Kong the autonomy to liase with Taiwan on government-level.

Beijing doesn't fully control HK per say, but it does seem like it.

I digress too much don't I?

Hkg82.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13737 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 813 times:

Air Taiwan: I think I get your point. But if so, then why the talk of the two operating more flights?


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 814 times:

Let's see, even the talk is not going settle down by 30 June, it will only be extended. Allowing other airlines to increase their flight to replace CX,CI, BR & KA is just nonsense. Not bad if it's a joke!

There's one thing you have to realise that today is not 1997, it's 2002. With today's situation, both sides are unlikely to extend the agreement, because the agreement has extended twice now.

HK is getting upset with Taiwan's move (look carefully what Air Taiwan said, it's true), and Taiwan is upset HK is unwelling to approve Taiwan's demand. With both sides having difficulties to reach a deal, it is possible that the talks won't be finished until June 30.

Taiwan's final move is if HK is unwelling to agree what Taiwan wants, and HK's demand is ridiculous, they woldn't mind that CI/BR/CX/KA to halt all the flights to HK. EVA won't get hurt that much, because they have Macau, and only 16 weekly flights to HK.


Also for your information, B772 has replaced the B744 on HKG-TPE, flight 3 times a week

well, SQ's 772 is currently flying HKG-TPE with 3x weekly, but you have to realize that once CX/BR/CI/KA halted HKG-Taiwan flight, they will be asked to increase the flight, perhaps triple daily.

Wow! Do Japan Asia Airways (Part of JAS?) doing a HKG - TPE - HKG route now or will it be a new one for them?

Japan Asia Airways has been flying HKG-TPE for years. JAA is part of JAL.

There's absolutely no way a new pact won't be reached before June 30, as both sides are aware that their respective carriers' most profitable routes will no longer be able to be operated by them.

You have to realize that CX is actually WILLING to lose flights to Taipei. On May 13, when the talks resumed, CX announce that they'll only accept 33 weekly freighter flights, instead of 45.

some people are optimistic about this (I didn't say this is wrong), you just need to know the situation is getting complicated.

I think it would be quite impossible for SQ and TG to operate 13 daily TPE-HKG flights. The SQ HKG-TPE flights are an extension of their SIN-HKG flight and TG's HKG-TPE flights are an extension of their BKK-HKG flights. Would TG and SQ be operating 13 daily BKK/SIN-HKG/TPE flights a day? I think not...

Well, TG/SQ would love to fly HKG-TPE/KHH, but they have to look at their aicraft schedule to see how many flights they can add if both sides airline (TW and HK) halted Taiwan-HKG.


The reason why I only mentioned JAA/TG/SIA is because these are the only 3 airlines I know that has the 5th freedom flying TPE-HKG. Not sure about the others.




User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1518 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 812 times:

Singapore_Air,

I really don't know why the HK official is saying that... perhaps a very unprofessional way of saying "look we're not afraid of cutting direct air-link between Taiwan and Hong Kong" to their Taiwanese counterparts. And this may very well be the instruction from the Big Brother in Beijing...

The Korean model (TG and CX flies TPE-ICN 17 times weekly in total, no Taiwanese or Korean airlines are allowed scheduled service on this route) works because it's only involving 17 flights weekly, but HKG-Taiwan... hmmmm about 280 flights a week!!

I also don't understand why Beijing is not giving the HK authorities to deal with Taiwan in HK's own ways... as Hkg82 said, it's what "one country, two system" is all about! I don't want to go into politics but HKG is really the biggest loser here...

Just imagine if CX/CI/BR/KA stopped flying the route, how much business is HKG is going to lose to say Macau. Also I'd think that CX would care a lot more if it loses TPE-NRT/KIX/NGO/FUK/ICN than if CI loses their HKG-BKK/SIN/KUL...

just my thoughts...

Jimmy


User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 803 times:

Well, HKG will lose its business anyway when air link between China and Taiwan is opened.

User currently offlineChiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 941 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 781 times:

one country two system is a joke, when are people going to realize that this is a propaganda by the chinese.

Taiwan is a independent state, chinese should realize that and shut up. The other side is just showing its barbaric nature.


User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 779 times:

Taiwan is a independent state, chinese should realize that and shut up

Not trying to be off topic, but I agree with chiawei. I think China is just twisting the history and didn't recognize the first China was established in 1911.

But if China keeps saying "One country, 2 systems", don't you think Taiwan is actually "One system, 2 countries" right now? Taiwan's President can be a leader of Taiwan terriotory if China wants to call it.

Anyways, to me, I think it's 50/50 whether Taiwan and HK will sign the new deal.


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