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DID Bombardier Buy The 728 Program?  
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1255 times:

I thought the announcement was scheduled for this week.
Tech Rep, FlyingT...what is the latest?


15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBryston From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1226 times:

Here a short article that answer your question Greg...

BOMBARDIER TO COMPLETE 728 EVALUATION BY MID-JUNE
Brendan Sobie, Air Transport Intelligence News, May 22, 2002

Bombardier plans to complete its evaluation of the Fairchild Dornier 728 program in mid-June and determine its interest in the insolvent manufacturer by July's Farnborough Air Show. Chief executive Robert Brown told analysts yesterday the team of Bombardier engineers that traveled to Germany to evaluate the 728 at the request of Lufthansa and German authorities is now preparing its report. "I expect the results of the evaluation will be done in the next few weeks and then I expect action," he says. Brown says Bombardier is "primarily interested" in the assets available from the 728 and 928 programs.
But he stresses that Bombardier will not invest in either program unless it is commercially feasible and says the company is well positioned in the 70-100 seat regional jet market regardless of what happens to Fairchild Dornier.
He points out Bombardier is now the only manufacturer with a 70-seat regional jet, the CRJ700, and that this aircraft will be operated by four US carriers before autumn. Brown adds that the CRJ900 program is also on track to be the first 90-seater to market, with first delivery early next year to launch customer Mesa Air Group. "With the market captured here in North America, it's not a problem at all," he says of Bombardier's position in the marketplace if it does not expand its regional jet line beyond the CRJ family. "If Fairchild Dornier is not to be there, we will still remain competitive."
At the same time, however, Brown leaves open the possibility of investing in the 728 and 928, or possibly reconsidering the proposed 100-seat BRJ-X, because these aircraft may offer a better solution for carriers who currently do not operate any CRJ-family aircraft. These are also the customers targeted by Embraer for its new family of 70- to 110-seat regional jets. "It's two different markets," Brown says, referring to the CRJ700/900 and 728/928. "One is four abreast [cabin seating] and the other is five abreast."



I'd rather be flying...
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1218 times:

Thanks...I thought in a previous press release they were hoping for an announcement before the end of the month.

Personally, I think they will buy the program.


User currently offlineBryston From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1187 times:

Me too. The lack of news about it seems to show that serious talking is occuring. I think that if Bombardier wouldn't be interessed, they would have already made an announce saying that they will not buy the 728 program.


I'd rather be flying...
User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1163 times:

The engineering team has concluded their assessment and now they have turned over the proceedings, with findings, to upper management for final review. By next week you will hear something.

TechRep


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1154 times:

Ok...so what's the internal scoop? Will there be a CRJ728?
How about the 328 program?


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1142 times:

I think these two designs would be a good asset to BBD....They would be a great product to compliment the CRJ line, and the airframe seems a bit more adept to growth then the CRJ line, and the combination of the two development teams would help make BBD a more competitive company.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineBryston From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1124 times:

Is BBD is among the "undisclosed" companies that show some interest to the 328JET program??? I though they were only interested by the 728...!?!?


I'd rather be flying...
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1105 times:

I agree that the possibility of Bombardier acquiring the 728/928 Jet program is really high. Since F-D already has customers for the 728Jet, I highly doubt Bombardier will kill those orders, so they'll probably pull a Boeing on that. The 928Jet does fall squarely into the pax range of the shelved BRJ-X jet, and would save some developmental costs since that program is already in advanced planning stages. Plus, with the CRJ-900, the design is essentially stretched to the max, it now looks like a mini-MD-80 with the newest stretch. Any larger aircraft would have to be a new design, which is what Embraer did, since the ERJ family was built upon the stretch fuselage of the EMB-120, and they really couldn't strecth it too much further than they have already. But I honestly wouldn't count Boeing out though. They have expressed interest in the RJ market (kind of a hindsight thing since they were the ones that sold Canadair to Bombardier to start with), initially with the 717-100 (still on the boards, but no decision to launch has been made), and the F-D family could give them an edge on Airbus that they have been lacking.

User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1098 times:

I put my money on Bombardier for several reasons:
1) The CRJ700/900 were competitive products but are running out of time with the EMB170 being out on the market. The 728/928 would give Bombardier the edge in this segment.

2) The CRJ700 has lost against the 728 at Lufthansa City Line, the largest pure regional carrier. Getting the 728 would mean that Bombardier re-gains this customer.

3) Bombardier gets the most advanced assembly/production plant in the world with the Oberpfaffenhoffen line which has plenty of space left.

4) They get another 1,000+ engineers plus a foot-hold in the German market, with the up-coming replacement of the Breguet Atlantic Marine Patroller and the CL601 Challengers down the road in the next 5 till 10 years a really interesting market.

5) The 728/928 are essentially Bombardier´s BRJX-90/110s which have been put on ice mainly due to the anticipated strenght of the 728/928.

6) The 928 has left a good potential for a further strech in the 110/125-seat range, the 728 can be shortened to the 528, giving flexibility from 55 till up to 125 seats with four planes.

Boeing could be an option but I doubt it. They would have big problems explaining their workers in LGB why they are loosing their jobs and 3,000+ staff in Germany are kept.

I had heard something about an announcement today but I suppose that you will always have a delay in it because one last-minute issue pops up etc.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1090 times:

Bombardier is NOT interested in the 328 program. We have until June 30 to find a buyer/partner or it's over for US operations and all will be transferred to OP. Everything is contingent upon new orders. 1.5% of costs will come from new orders to fund US operations, no new orders no US support. If this happens the US customers will truly suffer.

TechRep


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1081 times:

Boeing owned DeHavilland not Canadair...but same point...they missed the boat on that one for sure.... BBD would be better off offering the Dash family to all 328 customers who want to convert their orders rather then taking up the program on their own.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1077 times:

Slawko, wrong approach on this issue IMO. Even though we can pretty much rely on what TechRep tells us some thoughts you might want to comment:

The last years have clearly seen a move away from turboprops towards jets, especially the 30-seater jets had quite an impact. When FD launched the ill-futured 428 Embraer followed suit in launching the ERJ-140 and Bombardier made the desperate move to "shrink" the 50-seat CRJ200 into the CRJ400 and CRJ440 by removing some seats, for sure not the most economical way to do it. Figures I have show that in 2000 3 Dash 8-Q200 and 33 Dash 8-Q300orders were placed compared to 25 for the 328JET and 63 for the ERJ-135. 2001 figures are 0/2/45/2 respectivly.

TechRep has explained to me that a revival of the 428 would be possbile but would only make sense when updating the structure of the 328 at the same time to remove a bug the 328JET has (please correct me if I got it wrong). This would give Bombardier the ability to offer smaller jets than the CRJ200 to their customers, ACA already being a large operator of both the CRJ200 and 328JET and Delta Connection (DC) being out and looking for additional 30-seaters. Giving the large orders DC has there is a pretty good chance that Delta would opt in favour of Bombardier rather than for Embraer.

I am already looking forward to your comments.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8046 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1071 times:

I think Bombardier will take over the 728/928 program.

To summarize, we can cite the following reasons:

1. It gives Bombardier a strong competitor against the EMBRAER 170/190 series, saving lots of money on development costs. It also saves a lot of money on production costs, since the production facility is already built.

2. Bombardier could land quite a lot of 728/928 sales in many parts of the world. Here in North America, the 928 could be the perfect replacement for AC's now-retired fleet for DC-9's and F28's, and it may be a candidate for NW to eventually replace NW's large DC-9 fleet. In Africa, the 728/928 could be very popular with African airlines, especially since African governments are finding out much to their chargrin that second-hand planes are potential deathtraps; Bombardier will probably price the 928 at a lower cost than the 737 or A320 Family planes.

In short, Bombardier could have a huge revenue source on its hands, especially now that Boeing is not likely to continue the 717-200 and airlines are not interested in the higher costs of the A318 or 737-600.


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1066 times:

Flying-Tiger, thanks for that info, I didnt know that, given that info, I have to say that the 328/428 program may be a viable option for BBD, or other investors...


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1012 times:

Bombardier has mentioned they have no interest in anything 'but' the X28 program.

Raytheon was seen as a likely suitor for the 328Jet--although nothing can really happen until now (FD in the US needed to declare bancruptcy first--which they did last week).

According to Der Spiegel last week, there were three potential parties for the 328 Project. Hopefully, this will come to fruition...as well as the aborted 428.

FYI...I assume that Bombardier is doing due diligence on the accounting and technical records. They are the only party to actually look at the production facilities. This may be the verification that Boeing is no longer interested.


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