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Aer Lingus Grounds Itself From Friday  
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

Aer Lingus pilots are on strike today following the suspension of seven pilots who refused to comply with new cost-cutting working practices. The management of the company have decided to suspend all operations indefinately from Friday unless they can get 100% agreement from the unions with their Survival Plan - if they can't, they will shut the doors permanently.

Like Sabena, this may be yet another airline destroyed by unions living in cloud cuckoo-land!!  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=762480&issue_id=7489

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 4558 times:

, this may be yet another airline destroyed by unions living in cloud cuckoo-land!!

Nothing against Aer Lingus specifically but hey, but for every airline that goes, the chances of the rest surviving are improved. That's life. I doubt whether there'll be many tears at the likes of BMI or CityXpress if EI shuts down.


User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 4536 times:

fair point, other airlines wont be too sad but let's look at the subject in greater detail and out it into context.

Cityexpress( i think you mean BA's little baby) will be affected, BA has a small stake in aer lingus and it is a part of one world, to lose a one world carrier will have a knock on effect.

bmi do not fly to every irish airport.

aer Lingus is Ireland's national carrier, for it to collaspe would leave ryanair in a dominant postion, that is unhealthy for competition.

aer lingus is a quality airline, it is different from Sabena, it doesnt have a bad reputation and was fairly healthy before sept 11.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineAMSMAN From Ireland, joined Jan 2002, 1016 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 4530 times:

Im booked on the AMS - DUB 19.25 flight!! I hope they dont!!

J



Aer Lingus, Proud to be Irish.
User currently offlineAMSMAN From Ireland, joined Jan 2002, 1016 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4509 times:

Just been speaking to Aer Lingus Amsterdam!! They have confirmed that there is no flights departing from Europe into DUB on Thursday and Friday with Saturday until Wednesday looking very unclear!!

She also said that if the Airline was to hold a 7 day strike the company would just dissolve!!!

There goes my ticket!!!

J



Aer Lingus, Proud to be Irish.
User currently offlineGreenjet From Ireland, joined Aug 2001, 962 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

IF Aer Lingus were to fold up then there would temporarily be no flights to Amsterdam, Boston, Brussels Intl, Chicago, Dusseldorf, London City, LA, Munich and New York JFK from Dublin. On the other routes there would be monopolies. That may be good news for the likes of bmi, Ryanair, etc. but it's not good news for the general public.

User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

I dont think FR would raise prices too much.Volumes are key to them.This whole thing seems very Sabena-esque though,and we all know where that ended up.How much debt do EI have?

User currently offlineWunalaDreaming From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 196 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

What will happen to me???

I am due to fly LGW-DUB on 11 July.

The tickets are booked through British Airways and were advertised under the BA flight code. I also paid airline failure insurance.

Will Aer Lingus be in the air by July? Loosing £1,500,000 per day would say not!!!


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

1.5 million a day!!!Thats not too far off what UA are losing and they are considerably larger!

User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4171 times:

Replacement carriers tomorrow are Hapag Lloyd, Corsair and European Aviation.

User currently offlineSpitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

In order to be able to make a keen judgment about this strike, does anybody have the details of the cost-cutting plan ?
Rgds.
Spitfire



Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
User currently offlineBx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

The survival plan was negotiated and voted on by all unions in EI. It allowed for 2026 redundancies, a cut in annual leave, changes in on board service, cuts in cabin crew levels on flights, pay freezes, non-payments of increments, freeze on recruitment amongst others. All unions voted on it and accepted it with the exception of the pilots union. They accepted the pay freezes and the redundancies, but rejected the productivity clause. The major stumbling block for them was the company wanting to cut their rest period to 10 hours.

This was then imposed by the company. When pilots refused to work the new arrangements, they were suspended without pay. This led to the pilots union issuing strike notice for a one day strike on May 30.

In response to this the airline has cancelled its flights on Fri and Sat, Sun is looking a bit dodgy, citing logistical problems with recommencing operations. The airline has also said that it will not pay pilots from midnight tonight until further notice.

Wrt losing €1.5million per day, this is for the days when the airline is not flying. It is rumoured to be profitable at the moment.

I hope this is of some help


User currently offlineSpitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

Thanks Bx737,

You said :"The major stumbling block for them was the company wanting to cut their rest period to 10 hours. ", for what kind of duty time? This can have an imortant impact on security of the flights....
Rgds.
Spitfire




Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
User currently offlineBA DC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Aer Lingus is a highly reputable airline. Its service levels are high and to loose the airline would affect the Irish economy greatly, due to the vast number of transatlantic flights that would be lost. Ryanair is simply not a replacement for Aer Lingus. It will be a sad day if this almost historic airline is lost  Sad

User currently offlineParra From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4078 times:

Good for EI standing up to these idiots who think they are gods!

What's the difference between god and a pilot?


God knows that he is not a pilot.


User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Bastardo's, I need to get to DUB from LHR on Sat. for a stag do. I'm on stby on Bmi, and there were seats avail, but guess I'll be screwed now, if EI transfer their pax over like they did last time.  Sad


"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

What is the actual probability that they will shut down the airline? I would think that one of the two sides would blink first. Nobody likes to make themselves unemployed.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

CX747 - Don't forget that people said the same thing about Sabena ... and look what happened there.

User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4000 times:

for those of you who are sweating the possablity that your flight will be cancelled soon if AER LINGUS shuts down,most any airline will take your tickets.that is what always happens in this case.when northwest and air canada had their problems in i think 1998 UNITED and the other airlines flying to europe took the tkts.

and unions dont ruin companies,management ruins companies.i am not pro-union employee,if airlines took care of their employees(southwest)you would never hear about the problems of management not wanting to give raises,or bennifits or.... well you get the point.imo




ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineB-HXB From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3972 times:

It's about time an airline stood up to a union without caving in immediately. I hope the pilots feel a bit stupid when they are left with no job and will probably be cited as the main cause of the collapse by the general public.

User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

Aer Lingus' cost base ,not its relations with the unions,is probabrly its death knell.

User currently offlineWunalaDreaming From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 196 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

http://www.aerlingus.com

'This site is currently unavailable while essential maintenance is being carried out.
We hope this does not cause undue inconvenience.

Please try again later.'



User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

Donder10 - the cost base is directly attributable to the unions; especially in terms of working practices. If the unions demand that two or more people do a job one person could do, that drives your costs up!  Insane

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3898 times:

Especially if those same unions also demand wages that are double what someone in a non-airline related company would get for the same job...


I wish I were flying
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3890 times:

The latest news on the dispute is here: http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=763372&issue_id=7497

According to EI's CEO, Willie Walsh, it's costing them €2m per day to suspend operations.

Interesting quote:

The Taoiseach [Irish Prime Minister] acknowledged that the survival plan was "absolutely necessary". All workers in the airline had signed up to the agreement and all of them would have to take some pain in making changes.

"I appeal to management and staff to try and find a way out of this because the Aer Lingus balance sheet is still very weak. They haven't got surplus funds and are not in a position to take either internal or external shocks," said Mr Ahern.


25 Donder10 : Apparently EI lost 140 million euros last year and has forecast a 27m deficit this year!
26 Ei 168 : Have they sold off their charter airline Futura? They might get some money for that! Maybe not a lot but surely some amount!
27 Donder10 : Donder10 - the cost base is directly attributable to the unions; especially in terms of working practices. If the unions demand that two or more peopl
28 Post contains links AF002 : Doesn't look good: Message to customers (bottom right corner) on http://www.aerlingus.com/
29 Wolfpacker : Any more news about the meetings?
30 Standby87 : SAS23 – EI pilots are not 'demanding that 2 or more people do the same job'. They were going on strike to protest at the suspension without pay of s
31 Post contains links Flyingbronco05 : "DUBLIN, May 31 (Reuters) - Hopes for a resolution of the pilots' dispute that has grounded Irish national carrier Aer Lingus were raised Friday with
32 Adam84 : Regarding everyone who currently has Aer Lingus tickets, call another carrier right away and try to get your ticket validated from EI. Once ticketing
33 Post contains images SAS23 : Standby87 - In order to keep the company in business, management developed a Survival Plan. Every part of that plan neds to be implemented in order fo
34 Donder10 : It's only a change of 2 hours anyway-not a huge change.The same pilots striking now will be moaning like heck when EI go the way of Sabena.
35 Englandair : Were there no EI flights at all today? Not even positioning? It's just that between 5 and 7 pm today I saw 2 a/c I would have bet money were EIs. I sa
36 Englandair : Any guesses as to what I saw?!
37 Geotrash : I want a well rested pilot too. I know that they carry tremendous responsibility. Nevertheless, it is unquestionably wrong of these pilots to walk off
38 WunalaDreaming : I booked a flight LGW-DUB rtn with British Airways traving on 11JUL2002 and returning on 14JUL2002. I booked these through and ABTA bonded travel agen
39 Luftaom : If you are booked on the BA flight number then your money went to BA, this means that it is BA's problem if EI goes belly up. A recent example would b
40 Standby87 : I'm glad the dispute is coming to an end - there's another thread about that. Just a few points: SAS23 - I respect your opinions, I just disagree with
41 SAS23 : Standby87 - actually, I suspect that our views at the end of the day are very similar. I don't like bullies - be they management or union. The way tha
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