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Boeing 747 Production  
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

I have always wondered how the following JAL picture could be a 747-100, since it has the extended upper deck. Same for the second picture--how is this KLM plane a 747-200, as it too has an upper deck?

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Photo © Andrew Hunt
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Photo © Lee Archer


I would think at first glance both of these planes would be 747-300's.

Could someone maybe make a production timeline showing the overlapping design elements or explain the options available in each model? It's confusing! Were these planes modified later in their service lives?

Also, what does the SUD prefix stand for?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

The JAL 747-100 with the Extended Upper Deck was a regular 747-100 that was modified to its current form so that it would better meet the capacity demands of Japan's busy routes. I believe that it is a one of a kind aicraft and is the only 747-100 series aircraft to be modified like that. KLM had their 747-200 series aircraft modified to Extended Upper Deck configuration and therefore they look like 747-300s.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1574 times:

SUD = Stretched Upper Deck

Guess that answers your question..

Staffan  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1566 times:

Thanks guys for answering my questions. Were there any other modifications to these aircraft, specifically to compensate for the weight differences?

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

Currently I am away from all of my information. Within the next 24hrs I'll post more on both the JAL 747-100 SUD and the KLM 747-200 SUD.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineBoeingnut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

I cant remember the source (sorry), but I have read that extending the upper deck actually decreased drag and made the plane more aerodynamic. Im not sure if the decrease in drag (and thus fuel burn) offsets the increase in fuel burn due to higher weight from the SUD.

-Boeingnut


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1459 times:

Chicago receives the KLM 747-206SUDs

PH-BUM
PH-BUN
PH-BUF i think....


User currently offlineRw774477 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1453 times:

PH-BUF was w/o in Tenerife

rw774477


User currently offlineVw From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 252 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1450 times:

I have been on PH-BUT and PH-BUU both 747-200 sud.

User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2391 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

In medical circles SUD stands for sudden unexplained death, so Mr. Boeing changed the abbreviation to EUD for extended upper deck. Good idea I think.

User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5331 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

I think PH-BUU is a 300 along with BUV and BUW.

User currently offlineJvW From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

There are actually two B741-SUD existing in JALs fleet...

JA8176


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Photo © Edward Lai



and JA8170


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Photo © Andrew Hunt



JvW


User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 943 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1336 times:

If you don’t know the differences the JAL aircraft can be one of four options:

B747-100 EUD (as in the picture, this is the first time I hear of a EUD for the B741)
B747-200 EUD
B747-300
B747-400 D

The last one replaces the B747-200 SR (Short Range). It is a B747-400 without the winglet and with few other changes.




Long live the B747
User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 943 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1329 times:

There are actually two B741-SUD existing in JALs fleet...

are or were?

Does anyone of them is still on the air?



Long live the B747
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1268 times:

To the best of my knowledge, both JA8170 and JA8176 are still operating as of today.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1237 times:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=JA8176

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Photo © Yosuke Kinoshita
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Photo © Ito Noriyuki


There appears to be a great deal of inconsistency in the designation of the aircraft shown above. I have noted two such inconsistencies.

According to the first picture's caption, I presume that ship JA8176 was delivered in August 1986! How could a -100 series be delivered in the late 1980's? I was under the impression that the construction of the -100 series ended much earlier, in the early to mid 1980's, not the later years of that decade.

The second picture's caption lists ship JA8176 as a Boeing 747-346(SR/SUD). Is ship JA 8176 a -100 or -300 series aircraft?

Where are people getting their information? Maybe it's just me, but I'm just really picky on accuracy I suppose!


User currently offlineIbizajet A330 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

The SUD conversion was ordered by 3 airlines: KLM (10x 747-206Bs converted), UTA (2x 747-2B3Bs converted) and JAL (2x 747-146Bs converted), making a total of 14 747-100/200S converted to SUD.
It's interesting to note the history of KLM's PH-BUH and BUI. Born as regular's 747-206Bs, they were converted to SUD, and then to Freighters SD...making them the only SUD and Freighter converted 747s.
Just for the record. The PH-BUL and the PH-BUK haven't been retired because KLM has retired the PH-BUP and the PH-BUR will be retired at the end of the summer schedule. Moreover, KLM seems to have some difficulties in selling both the BUK and the BUL as they are old and have a lot of flying hours and cycles.

PHBUH Converted to freighter
PHBUI Converted to freighter

PHBUM 747-206SUD/SCD
PHBUN 747-206SUD/SCD
PHBUO 747-206SUD
PHBUR 747-206SUD
PHBUT 747-206SUD/SCD
PHBUU 747-306SCD
PHBUV 747-306SCD
PHBUW 747-306SCD

2 freighters, 6 combi, 2 all pax.

Pretty interesting topic. After looking through Bill Harm's the only other carriers to have the SUD coversion done were KLM, who had all of their GE powered 742 converted, and Air France (presumably these were ex-UTA planes) who has 2 747-2B3-SUDs. The JAL 747SR-146B-SUDs are JA8170 and JA8176... both delivered in 1986, which has to make them the younger 747-100s out there. ANA also has two.

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

All KLM ones will be gone by the end of 2005, maybe even earlier depending on the delivery schedule of the 777s.
That will likely be the end of the SUD/SCD, as it is indeed almost impossible to sell them because of their age and airframe life.
My guess is they'll be scrapped and the parts sold to 747-200 and -300 operators.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3023 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1196 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

JAL planes
JP Airline fleets list:

JA8170, Boeing 747-146B (SR/SUD), cn23390/ln636, pra:N6009F, finished 0083, del 0386, 4 PW JT9D-7A, MTOW 272155kg, C25,Y538, SELCAL GJ-HK

JA8176, Boeing 747-146B (SR/SUD), cn23637/ln655, pra:N60668, finished 0086, del 0986, 4 PW JT9D-7A, MTOW 272155kg, C25 Y538, SELCAL GJ-HL

Now the reason these are such late -100s is because the -200 has a heavier structure that is not required for a short range A/C (in fact all 747SRs are -100s, not -200s) so they were built as -100s near the end of Classic production.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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