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Why Doesn't AA Fly PVD-DFW Or PVD-MIA Nonstop?  
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2314 times:

With WN adding even MORE service out of PVD, you'd have to wonder why AA is content with just 4 Super80 flights per day to ORD? NW has added MSP, and these flights seem to be doing quite well. Also, I wonder if UA has ever considered PVD-DEN? They currently only have 5 mainline flights to ORD and 4 RJs to IAD, I believe.

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33040 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

There is definitley a market for AA to fly MIA-PVD. A daily 738 to connect with the Caribbean flights, combined with the decent O&D between the two, would work perfectly, IMO. As AA continues thier MIA expansion (130 new dailies between now and 2007), MIA-PVD is a definite possibility.


a.
User currently offlineLexPassenger From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2265 times:

Because they would lose money if they did.

User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2236 times:

Both BDL and BOS have this service. Are they money losers? I doubt it. MIA and DFW are both major hubs for AA, and would provide Southeastern New Englanders a nice alternative to flying over ORD. AA has not done ANY expansion at PVD since the mid '80s. The MARKET is there, and more people are using T.F. Green Airport (PVD), than EVER before! Just take a look at the numbers.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33040 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2231 times:

I agree with John. In fact, by November 1st American will be flying 10 dailies between Miami and Boston/Hartford, in addition to Delta's seven dailies. It is a huge market.


a.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2218 times:

John,

United does have plans to expand it's Eastern network from DEN which currently is pretty poor. I think we will see the Eastern expansion to start in 3 years or so and you'll see new routes such as DEN-CVG, DEN-PIT, DEN-CLT, DEN-RDU, MAYBE DEN-GSO, DEN-BDL, and DEN-PVD.

So it will be coming, but it'll probably be a few years.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8904 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2202 times:

The reason is simply the BOS operation. This is the reason that MHT has no AA service, and PVD has only ORD MD-80s and JFK/LGA Saabs/ER3s. AA would rather feed people into its BOS operation than the "outstations" at PVD and MHT. In fact, at MHT, we have questioned this for both PVD and MHT. Both airports have NO scheduled service to South Florida, yet are piling up the flights to MCO and TPA. I am surprised that AA or WN does not fly MHT/PVD-PBI/FLL/MIA. Also, I am surprised about the lack of MHT/PVD-DFW. Southwest would kill to serve this route, as MHT and PVD are huge WN stations. AA would be able to snub WN big time by flying MHT/PVD-DFW. Not to mention that there is a market for flights to the southwest (PVD has 2 flights to PHX, thats it). However, at the MHT club, we have recieved word from an AA route planner (who is a relative of a club member), and she said that AA has no intention of adding services into PVD and MHT. Oh well, let's watch Delta, Continental, United, and Southwest come into these up-and-coming markets and watch AA come flying in, when it's too late.

Jeff


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

As founder of the MHT Yahoo Club, this whole AA thing irritates me. First, at least PVD HAS service by American. That's more than we have up here at MHT. The Boston argument doesn't hold much water..first because they're at PVD; second because the other majors (DL is doing fabulous out of MHT) don't seem to have an issue with cannibalizing BOS by adding MHT/PVD service. To me, AA is a very predatory airline...hell-bent on attacking other carriers. They have the Ft. Worth politicians in their back pocket thanks to that huge maintenance base at Alliance Airport. So who do you think stands in the way of the Wright Ammendment being overturned? Yup...Ft. Worth and State politicians. Long story short, the Wright Ammendment prevents Southwest from launching anything but short flights from their home base at Love Field. So, AA is doing everything in their power to squash Southwest, and their 'bat' is the Wright Ammendment.

Second, do you think that AA just got religion and decided that, 'Hey! Long Beach looks good to us!' Duh. They 'decided that LGB was attractive' simply because someone else did...namely JetBlue.

So, in the end, do I want a carrier that doesn't really care about MHT in the first place? Hardly. In fact, we're doing very, very well without them.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33040 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

DeltAirlines, WN does have seasonal FLL-MHT/PVD, only Saturdays, though, and DLX has FLL-PVD before 9.11 as you may or may not know. Why MIA/FLL lack year-round service to MHT/PVD is beyond me, because the market is there, and it's huge. Miami practically is the Northeast already. Although, rumours are that when Southwest moves into thier new terminal at FLL this August, MHT and PVD will be added. Southwest has promised they will be stepping up flights in FLL with the extra gate space they are going to be getting at the new terminal.


a.
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

Those Saturday flights didn't last long at all for WN. They discontinued that run this past January, I believe. And Delta Express pulled out of the market all together, post 9/11. They ran 2 nonstops per day PVD-FLL.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33040 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

John, they were winter-only services.


a.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33040 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Also to add, referring to FLL-PVD, Delta discontinued all four of thier new FLL markets...PVD, IND, DCA, and ORD...after 9.11. Not nessecarily because loads were light or demand was not there, but because they were not established markets. IND, DCA, and ORD still have FLL service with other airlines, though.


a.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

I have actually heard rumors from several sources regarding PVD-MIA. AA probably wont do PVD-DFW untill the demand literally breaks the door down ( I.E. a full MD80 to ORD in continuing to DFW). MIA can be done since there are no low fare connections to be made form MIA, where as DFW a pax can connect to LAS PHX LAX, OAK, SAN etc when AA matches SW's $99 fare. AA being a large airline, they sure do like to run from SW. They tend to have negetive reactions to SW markets. PVD they added some service, but only becuase the demand form the 120% increase in pax over 2 years literally forced them to. Simmilarly, MHT will not get AA service untill the demand literally breaks the door down. At BDL AA has added a seasonal to SJu and a seasonal to MIA, non-low fare cities, while at the same time, they will drop a BDL-STL flight. AA tends to be like the big German shepherd running from the little yapping chihuahua. While i can understand being cautious with these markets for financial reasons, i think there are many cases where the majors loose money. If we look at 9/11, i dont beleive any of those flights had over 100 people on them and they were all comming from major non-SW airports, where the majors at PVD and MHT often poster well over 80% loads on the majority of flights. Seems to me like they will put a flight on a city where they know they will ahve 10 high paying passengers and hope that it will fill, which in most cases they do not, rather than fill every seat at a lower fare, and make more $$. Its one of those things that has arguments for both sides, yet i think AA tends to take it too far sometimes. Can anyone think of an Airport where AA mainline ( not RDU, thats AAE) and SW both have large presences 9 other than LAX, cuz every airline does)....i couldnt think of any.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

Just to clarify, I wouldn't clarify PVD as a HUGE WN city. Only like 30 flights a day or so? That's not too much actually.



User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

MAH4546,

Hey, I was flew on that one nonstop from FLL - MHT flight as for myself on back of December 29, 2001 and were I came back home on January 5, 2002 as for my nonstop ride back home. That is very good flight as for myself on the WN flight. It is on reg. number N617SW to MHT and come back home on reg. number N369SW. It is very nice flight. I did seen with the moon up on the sky way to MHT. I got took a nice shot as for myself. This is very popular nonstop from FLL-MHT as for my first-ever from me!!! I was very lucky that I did got a timetable from ticket counter and I have a good friend of mine and his name is John were work by Southwest Airlines an Ticket Agent and gate agent too. He is very well at the his job. So this is it as for now!!

Scott W


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8904 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

Yeah, I didn't include the seasonal PVD/MHT-FLL flights because a.) they run for only about 8 weeks and b.) it is only one flight a week. If there were a flight a day, then I might count it, but one flight a week does not really count.

Jeff


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

In responce to MSY tristar..yea 30 fpd isnt ALOT for a SW city but for a meduim sized airport ( 6 mil pax / yr) that equates to over a 35% market share for SW.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

Sorry to vent my steam.. But the reason they don't fly that route is because there is not yet a low fare airline there. See, Once jetBlue flies in there, AA will take that route like they did with LGB.

Hey, I had to say it.


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

I don't think you'll see jetBlue at PVD anytime soon, mainly because of it's proximity to JFK. It's really not economically feasible to run an A320 on a short haul flight, such as as PVD-JFK. Although, I did read they have plans to add BOS to their network. I COULD see AirTran going into PVD and maybe giving Delta a run for their money on the ATL run?

User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4605 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1957 times:

An airline isn't going to fly a route if the market is already being served in a way that would be better for the airline. There are a lot of markets out there that we believe should be served...but the airline gods haven't been convinced yet. We shouldn't expect anything from an airline unless we give them their business. In the case of PVD and MHT -- i look at it this way. These are airport that had a huge boom after the arrival of WN. Why should any other airline give a thing to those airports? The people stayed away from those cities until WN came in and then suddenly they became some of the fastest growing airports at that time. Where when you look on the flip side -- an established airline that was doing well before and during the arrival of the low fare carrier...will do better after them. Why? They will reward the people that made their service a preference over the other airline.

If people in PVD really want to fly to Dallas or Miami that bad...let me introduce you to WN flying to FLL and to DAL -- with the requirement of having to recheck your bags in OKC,TUL,HOU,IAH,etc.

We all ask why doesn't this airline fly to here from our airport. We should then ask ourselves...what have we done to make that airline want to serve the market, and most importantly -- why do I think that we DESERVE the service from that airline? We all would love to have mainline service to everywhere...but eventually enough is enough and we can only cry and whine about it so much till people just stop listening and the airlines turn the other way.


User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1949 times:

"At BDL AA has added a seasonal to SJu and a seasonal to MIA, non-low fare cities"


Actually, the second SJU flight has been year round now for almost a year, it wasnt cut after last summer when it was added. The 737-800 that was running the second flight is now a 757, so I could see that going back to a 737 but th 2 daily flights will remain year round. As for MIA, I dont believe they mentioned that the second flight was seasonal, so we will have to see.




User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1941 times:

NO crying or WHINING here. Simply asking why AA doesn't run these city pairs, because DFW and MIA are major hubs and there currently is no competition in these 2 markets from PVD. I think AA would do very well on these routes. I'm just wondering why AA has been so hesitant to branch out a little, from PVD. Who'd ever think there'd be a market from PVD-MSP? NW tested the market with RJs and upgraded those flights to A319 equipment. NW took a chance and they now run 3 MSP services, in addition to their usual 3 or 4 DTW flights. Just an example.

User currently offlineCoolchris122 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1938 times:

whats PVD? which airlines fly into it?

User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1915 times:

NW runs 2 flights to MSP and 4 to DTW, sometimes 5 in summer. PVD is Providence Rhode Isand.

American
Delta
Continental
US Airways
Southwest
United
Cape Air
Northwest


User currently offlineGD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1911 times:


Why doesn't AA run MIA service from PVD? Because AA has the worst managing techniques I have ever seen. MIA would definitely be profitable from PVD.

-GD727



Mmmm forbidden donut.
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