PROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5526 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2677 times:
There's a popular paperback book in the United States, called "The Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook," that has tips for surviving dangerous situations. One of the situations involves landing an airplane if the pilot dies or becomes incapacitated. It's aimed at small planes, not airliners.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4690 posts, RR: 45 Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2635 times:
Hm, I think there are nicer dreams of piloting an airliner and/ or being a big hero, and they don't involve dead people. That's kinda sick and twisted in my personal opinion (no offense, but you asked for our opinion).
When I was young, I dreamed of being a TriStar pilot - it was the first plane I ever flew on, and as a six year old I found the red and white LTU colors on that huuuge aircraft just "plane awesome" (pun intended).
It's a pity that those dreams hardly ever come back when you grow older and lose the naivity (sp?) of youth... Now I'm getting philosophical...
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
Jgore From Argentina, joined Feb 2002, 550 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2631 times:
I'm sure you got me wrong guys. I'm just telling i've heard that many future pilots have dreamed or fantazied about this situation, and it's my case too.
I don't wish misfortune for anyone, don't get me wrong, PLEASE.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4690 posts, RR: 45 Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2612 times:
Ok, now I get your point!
Actually, I'd keep my fingers crossed that someone competent would be on board (like a deadheading pilot or a really experienced private pilot). Because although I logged many thousend hours of flight sim flying over the years, this is nowhere close enough to reality (altough it gives you quite some understanding of whats going on when you're flying as a passenger) to actually fly a real airliner and not crash it into the ground miserably.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3641 posts, RR: 29 Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2456 times:
Jgore - if they're dead, how are they going to call you and open the door for you? I still think fantasizing about this is sick and wrong. Again, just work hard to get to the point someday when you can do it for real and not in some wild hair brained fantasy.
Since I was about 6 I knew I wanted to be an airline pilot. I dreamed everyday of my life for the opportunity to fly an airliner. It came true last June 1, on my first revenue flight as a pilot. I never once though dreamed whilst flying the pilots would become incapasitated. I pursued my dream in a logical way.
If this ever were the case, I wouldn't hope a private pilot would save the day. Since a weird twist of fate would cause both pilots to drop dead to begin with, that simple twist of fate would also mean that it was a full flight and a fully qualified pilot of the particular airplane I was flying on was occupying the cockpit jumpseat.
Flyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3838 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2445 times:
Well with my flying experience in twin props, i hope i would be able to land a jet. Of course it would be a horrible landing but with help from the tower and stuff, i would like to think i could get the plane down on the runway. I really hope i dont have to do this though.
Heavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2430 times:
Perhaps Jgore should have rephrased the question sans the apparent glee, but I have to admit this has gone through my mind before.....particularly since 9/11 when , if the fates were kinder and the passengers of the United flight over Pennsylvania were successful in subduing the hijackers they would have, by all best estimates of the situation, have been aboard a Boeing 757 with no cockpit crew.
Could that aircraft ..or any modern airliner...have been landed by:
-Just one rated commercial pilot (any type) amongst the passengers?
-An experienced private pilot?
-A beginner private pilot?
-A non pilot with some MS FlightSim hours? (Don't laugh! If it's your only option..??????)
-A non pilot (harkening back to the 'f/a lands the jumbo' days of Hollywood action movies.)
Wilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1158 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2398 times:
if you guys are obcessed by your flying fantasy there was an article in flying sometime back.. basicly said there are enough deadheads on the average flight that a private pilot-flight simer would be out ranked, but that otto-the-pilot could save the day if a pax knew how to use it
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3641 posts, RR: 29 Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2387 times:
Principles of flight are the same no matter what airplane you fly. But controling props and controling jet engines are totally different. You can't expect immediate responce from jet engines, like you can in a prop. I also wouldn't want controlers trying to talk me through something sight unseen... AIRPLANE was a movie kids. It wouldn't be pretty by any means, but it could probably be done. But it isn't just a matter up putting it on the ground, it's a matter of slowing down, extending the flaps, flying the right speeds etc... airliners aren't the 172 where you can go fly it without knowing limitations or speeds.
Gordonroxburgh From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 550 posts, RR: 21 Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2369 times:
This was discussed at length on PPRUNE.
The end feeling was if it was a modern aircraft with fly by wire autoland systems (eg 747,777, 737NG A320/30/40) it could be landed by a passenger - as long as there was someone on the ground to talk through all the procedures. The person in the cockpit must have some previous idea of what is going on , maybe on flight sim or an aviation interest. Small single engine prop aircraft experience really would not count for anything apart from habing an understanding with the terminologies being used, as flying a large aircraft and knowing is systems is just too different.
Wilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1158 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2284 times:
thats awful bold of you, and boldness is death in aviation... there are old pilots there are bold pilots but there are no old and bold pilots.. if you dont understand it think about it... So you could land a 737... well I would not want you landing my plane... as AZNJubilee pointed out jet engines dont spool up immediatly like they do in a cessna 172 or in flight simulator.. a real plane doenst have a reset button when you crash... A 172 as long as you dont stall it and spin it into the ground is a very forgiving aircraft... How do you plane spotters and flight simulators think you can fly a plane becaue you fly a simulator with an aircraft that was designed by some teenager thats a brillent artist and has every detail of the plane depicted in flgiht simulator but the FLIGHT MODEL SUCKS.. there is no engine start key on a 737 newer aircraft with FADEC systems make engine starting easy but it sure isnt Microsoft Flight Simulator.. lets say you do have some stick and rudder skills are you going ot know how to use the com radios??? 121.5 mean anything to you... 7700.... how about presseruization schedules.. we dont want our passengers to have the bends do we... what about shear panic...could you act in the istuation, could you aviate and fly the aircraft until the last piece falls off... Im not a line pilot, but ive flown jumpseat many times, and its not sititng back and drinking cofee guys critical phases of flight have high workloads... you have two people up there... and you still have CFIT acidents, or other human factors related accidents where 2 experienced aviatiors crash a perfectly good airplane...
now saying there was no dead heads or non reving pilots on board
who would i want up there, someone that can be a manager someone that can work under stress... Not someone with a Canon EOS camara or some kid sitting back in coach playing flight simulator on his laptop playing like he is flying the route...
sorry for the rant
25 IMissPiedmont: Since most large airliners can land without a human touching the controls, it is not much of an issue anymore. However, I used to have the same fantas
26 Flydeltasjets: First of all, guys, lighten up! I don't think that Jgore is wishing death on anyone, I think he just wants to save the day! Who doesn't? It is a harml
27 Azjubilee: I miss piedmont: you tell me which planes out there can land by themselves without the pilots touching the controls? Sure there are autoland airplanes
28 Jgore: Well, i've been reading all of your replys and i got something to say about it. I noticed that many of you ADMIT having ,at some time, that sort of fa
29 Vafi88: YEAH!!! I dream about it like atleast once a week. i think a lot of people have that fantacy... for some reason I'm always either in a 777 or an A340
30 Wilcharl: Like azjubilee said... "What help would anyone expect from controlers? These people are the ones that expect you to pay the price for their mistakes."
31 Jhooper: I've had similar "dreams" or fantasys. Of course, no one wants anyone to get hurt. But (as in the example of flight 93), if the pilots are unable, for
32 Positive rate: I think the best way to go about it if it did happen is to control the airplane via autopilot. If you have a basic PPL and have SOME knowledge of a/c
33 Erasmus: Hi, Jgore, First of all, I think your fantasy is quite normal. You never said that you wished the crew dead! You were just fantasising about suddenly