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Both Pilots Dead, You Have To Land The Airplane!  
User currently offlineJgore From Argentina, joined Feb 2002, 550 posts, RR: 2
Posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

Hey foks!!!
This is my fantasy!!! is it yours also ?

jgore  Smile

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

Sorry, I do not understand...

User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

This is a very sad if this happens, but I dreamt this already about 4 times!! I don't know why, it just happened.

Regards,
Frederic


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3894 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

You're sick and twisted to have a fantasy that involves the death of other people. Just be patient and work hard to get to fly an airliner. Don't wish other peoples misfortune.








AZJ


User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

I reckon!!  Nuts

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5632 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

There's a popular paperback book in the United States, called "The Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook," that has tips for surviving dangerous situations. One of the situations involves landing an airplane if the pilot dies or becomes incapacitated. It's aimed at small planes, not airliners.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineSpitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Anyway good luck guys....I surely will read the news in the newspaper and see it on CNN..."plane crashed"...


Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Hm, I think there are nicer dreams of piloting an airliner and/ or being a big hero, and they don't involve dead people. That's kinda sick and twisted in my personal opinion (no offense, but you asked for our opinion).

When I was young, I dreamed of being a TriStar pilot - it was the first plane I ever flew on, and as a six year old I found the red and white LTU colors on that huuuge aircraft just "plane awesome" (pun intended).
It's a pity that those dreams hardly ever come back when you grow older and lose the naivity (sp?) of youth... Now I'm getting philosophical...




Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineJgore From Argentina, joined Feb 2002, 550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

I'm sure you got me wrong guys. I'm just telling i've heard that many future pilots have dreamed or fantazied about this situation, and it's my case too.
I don't wish misfortune for anyone, don't get me wrong, PLEASE.

jgore  Sad


User currently offlineWilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3002 times:

if both pilots died, i would hope that a dead heading pilot sitting in first class was there to land the aircraft rather then a plane spotting non pilot

User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

Ok, now I get your point!  Smile
Actually, I'd keep my fingers crossed that someone competent would be on board (like a deadheading pilot or a really experienced private pilot). Because although I logged many thousend hours of flight sim flying over the years, this is nowhere close enough to reality (altough it gives you quite some understanding of whats going on when you're flying as a passenger) to actually fly a real airliner and not crash it into the ground miserably.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineMd88captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

In your dream how do you get through the locked, reinforced cockpit door?

User currently offlineJgore From Argentina, joined Feb 2002, 550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

well, i don't get throught the locked door, i get called by the crew  Smile

User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2888 times:

LOL MD88captain LOL!!! Good one hehehehehehehehe

User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

Jgore, Come and land the plane.
We're dying!!  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineJgore From Argentina, joined Feb 2002, 550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2880 times:

heheheh i'll be there in a minute!, meanwhile set up the autopilot!  Smile

jgore  Smile


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3894 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Jgore - if they're dead, how are they going to call you and open the door for you? I still think fantasizing about this is sick and wrong. Again, just work hard to get to the point someday when you can do it for real and not in some wild hair brained fantasy.

Since I was about 6 I knew I wanted to be an airline pilot. I dreamed everyday of my life for the opportunity to fly an airliner. It came true last June 1, on my first revenue flight as a pilot. I never once though dreamed whilst flying the pilots would become incapasitated. I pursued my dream in a logical way.

If this ever were the case, I wouldn't hope a private pilot would save the day. Since a weird twist of fate would cause both pilots to drop dead to begin with, that simple twist of fate would also mean that it was a full flight and a fully qualified pilot of the particular airplane I was flying on was occupying the cockpit jumpseat.


AZJ


User currently offlineFlyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Well with my flying experience in twin props, i hope i would be able to land a jet. Of course it would be a horrible landing but with help from the tower and stuff, i would like to think i could get the plane down on the runway. I really hope i dont have to do this though.


Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

Perhaps Jgore should have rephrased the question sans the apparent glee, but I have to admit this has gone through my mind before.....particularly since 9/11 when , if the fates were kinder and the passengers of the United flight over Pennsylvania were successful in subduing the hijackers they would have, by all best estimates of the situation, have been aboard a Boeing 757 with no cockpit crew.

Could that aircraft ..or any modern airliner...have been landed by:

-Just one rated commercial pilot (any type) amongst the passengers?
-An experienced private pilot?
-A beginner private pilot?
-A non pilot with some MS FlightSim hours? (Don't laugh! If it's your only option..??????)
-A non pilot (harkening back to the 'f/a lands the jumbo' days of Hollywood action movies.)

Interesting questions. Anyone?



User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

I took some flying lessons about three years ago.
It wouldn't be the prettiest touch down...and maybe not on the runway...but I think I could get it down in one piece.

But it's hardly a fantasy.


User currently offlineWilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

if you guys are obcessed by your flying fantasy there was an article in flying sometime back.. basicly said there are enough deadheads on the average flight that a private pilot-flight simer would be out ranked, but that otto-the-pilot could save the day if a pax knew how to use it

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3894 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2765 times:

Principles of flight are the same no matter what airplane you fly. But controling props and controling jet engines are totally different. You can't expect immediate responce from jet engines, like you can in a prop. I also wouldn't want controlers trying to talk me through something sight unseen... AIRPLANE was a movie kids. It wouldn't be pretty by any means, but it could probably be done. But it isn't just a matter up putting it on the ground, it's a matter of slowing down, extending the flaps, flying the right speeds etc... airliners aren't the 172 where you can go fly it without knowing limitations or speeds.



AZJ


User currently offlineWietse From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 3809 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

I really reckon i could do it, with all the knowledge I have on how to fly an a/c. Perhaps not a 747, but a 737 would be possible!

Wietse



Wietse de Graaf
User currently offlineGordonroxburgh From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 550 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

This was discussed at length on PPRUNE.

The end feeling was if it was a modern aircraft with fly by wire autoland systems (eg 747,777, 737NG A320/30/40) it could be landed by a passenger - as long as there was someone on the ground to talk through all the procedures. The person in the cockpit must have some previous idea of what is going on , maybe on flight sim or an aviation interest. Small single engine prop aircraft experience really would not count for anything apart from habing an understanding with the terminologies being used, as flying a large aircraft and knowing is systems is just too different.


User currently offlineWilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

Wietse,

thats awful bold of you, and boldness is death in aviation... there are old pilots there are bold pilots but there are no old and bold pilots.. if you dont understand it think about it... So you could land a 737... well I would not want you landing my plane... as AZNJubilee pointed out jet engines dont spool up immediatly like they do in a cessna 172 or in flight simulator.. a real plane doenst have a reset button when you crash... A 172 as long as you dont stall it and spin it into the ground is a very forgiving aircraft... How do you plane spotters and flight simulators think you can fly a plane becaue you fly a simulator with an aircraft that was designed by some teenager thats a brillent artist and has every detail of the plane depicted in flgiht simulator but the FLIGHT MODEL SUCKS.. there is no engine start key on a 737 newer aircraft with FADEC systems make engine starting easy but it sure isnt Microsoft Flight Simulator.. lets say you do have some stick and rudder skills are you going ot know how to use the com radios??? 121.5 mean anything to you... 7700.... how about presseruization schedules.. we dont want our passengers to have the bends do we... what about shear panic...could you act in the istuation, could you aviate and fly the aircraft until the last piece falls off... Im not a line pilot, but ive flown jumpseat many times, and its not sititng back and drinking cofee guys critical phases of flight have high workloads... you have two people up there... and you still have CFIT acidents, or other human factors related accidents where 2 experienced aviatiors crash a perfectly good airplane...

now saying there was no dead heads or non reving pilots on board

who would i want up there, someone that can be a manager someone that can work under stress... Not someone with a Canon EOS camara or some kid sitting back in coach playing flight simulator on his laptop playing like he is flying the route...

sorry for the rant


25 IMissPiedmont : Since most large airliners can land without a human touching the controls, it is not much of an issue anymore. However, I used to have the same fantas
26 Flydeltasjets : First of all, guys, lighten up! I don't think that Jgore is wishing death on anyone, I think he just wants to save the day! Who doesn't? It is a harml
27 Azjubilee : I miss piedmont: you tell me which planes out there can land by themselves without the pilots touching the controls? Sure there are autoland airplanes
28 Jgore : Well, i've been reading all of your replys and i got something to say about it. I noticed that many of you ADMIT having ,at some time, that sort of fa
29 Vafi88 : YEAH!!! I dream about it like atleast once a week. i think a lot of people have that fantacy... for some reason I'm always either in a 777 or an A340
30 Wilcharl : Like azjubilee said... "What help would anyone expect from controlers? These people are the ones that expect you to pay the price for their mistakes."
31 Jhooper : I've had similar "dreams" or fantasys. Of course, no one wants anyone to get hurt. But (as in the example of flight 93), if the pilots are unable, for
32 Positive rate : I think the best way to go about it if it did happen is to control the airplane via autopilot. If you have a basic PPL and have SOME knowledge of a/c
33 Post contains images Erasmus : Hi, Jgore, First of all, I think your fantasy is quite normal. You never said that you wished the crew dead! You were just fantasising about suddenly
34 Post contains images BWIrwy4 : Steak, you fool, not chicken!!
35 Lindy : If the pilots were dead and you had access to the cockpit then first thing what would happend that you would have two F-16 beside you and they would s
36 Apuneger : Erasmus: Nice post. By the way, isn't this why pilots shouldn't be allowed to eat the same thing in the first place? (I think many airlines apply this
37 Wietse : Wilcharl Don't treat my like I am some sort of idiot. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I have had many flights of myself in cessnas, and went on se
38 Dufo : There is a practical way for this situation.. - a real flight simulator. Jernej
39 Jiml1126 : This already becomes the reality as the pilots onboard China Airlines CI611 died first before the aircraft breaks apart and crashed.
40 Beefmoney : Lindy- are you saying that you think the UAL 757 that crashed in Shanksville, PA was shot down? If so, why do you believe that?
41 Janne : As a passenger, having to take over the aircraft this is what I would do. The very same moment I saw those F-16's I would disengage the autopilot, for
42 Skystar : I think it does depend on the weather conditions (probably one of the most significant factors towards a sucessful arrival in this case). Lots of cros
43 Notar520AC : Can you say ILS?!!!! Hit a few buttons, turn a few dials, and you're set. -Mav
44 Wilcharl : putting on reverse thrust 50 ft above the ground......... GOD HELP US
45 Airlinelover : Anyone read any of John J. Nance's books?? I'd recommend them if you are "In to" this kind of stuff Chris
46 Flyboy36y : I allways wished I could be like that guy in the movie Airplane. Nobody dies and I get to fly.
47 Wilcharl : Wietse, sorry for being a bit hars and good luck with KLM
48 Wietse : Sorry, I jumped you, I can understand why you think A lot of people with only fs and spotting experience are overestimating themselves. thanks, Wietse
49 Wilcharl : Okay here it is my confession... I remember I ALWAYS WANTED TO DO THIS!!! had dreams of being the hero and everything... Thats why i was so defensive
50 Positive rate : The key is automation. Get the plane onto the ILS using AUTOPILOT, set an IAS with autothrottle and since the majority of planes can autoland try and
51 Johnboy : WWKBD? (What Would Karen Black Do?)
52 Post contains images Jgore : Positive rate: This is one of the main question people have: "Can i land the plane by just being told to intercept xxx.xx ILS freq , an approach cours
53 Jaysit : Rent Airport 1975. Then pretend you're the stewardess played by Karen Black, scream a lot, and gush as Charleton Heston played by your pretend friend
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