AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2445 posts, RR: 9 Posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1788 times:
I think Boeing must be privately worrying about the future of their Jumbo. If they don't launch the -400XQLR variant this month as is hoped for, how much of a future can it have. With sales of the standard -400 apparently dried up, the ER with only (I believe) 13 so far and no launch order yet for the XQLR, things aren't looking good to me. What do the rest of you out there think?
Sonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1757 times:
I think this Boeing needs to leave only 3 airplanes in their fleet. That's 737, 757 and 777. 737NG goes for short range 100-200 seats and competes with A32X, 757 goes in medium range 180-250 seats and is good for changing old A310. 777 would go for 250-420 seats. Maybe 777-100 and 777-400 could be created - the first one (with maybe 260 seats) to change A300 (lots of them getting old) and early 767s (some of early 767s could also be changed by 757-300). 777-400 (with 410 seats) would change 747s, because many of these are getting old.
I believe 747's main problem is lack of "family". Let's say A340-600 is compatible with other A340s and A330s. So, airline who got A340-600 can also easily get A340-200 and A330-300 let's say without costs needed to introduce other new type.
FlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 15 Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1741 times:
I think the whole industry of aircraft manufacturing is either going thru a dry spell or it's totally reinventing itself. After Sept. 11th, nothing is going to be the same again, whether it building airplanes or being an airline. The 747 is the biggest commercial airplane flying at the moment. Boeing may be privately worried about the 747 program at the moment, but the company as a whole will survive. Sometimes it best to sell a few more 737s than 1 747, if you can understand my meaning here. IMO, I won't write the 747 off. Once the A380 comes online, the 747 salesmen will highly aggressive again. And I'm pretty sure the designers/engineers are hard at work thinking of new, improved variants. Just my two cents worth. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
Boeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1680 times:
Indeed, we are in different times right now. If 9/11 hadn't happened and the world economy was healthy, both the 747 and A380 would be very prosperous. Every program has their lean years and the 747 is no exception. But don't count it out yet. The QLR will keep the "ole' whale" line going for a long time. For one thing, an environmentally friendly airplane will be a hot commodity soon.
CX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4434 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1674 times:
I have to agree that the entire industry is in a dry spell right now. Let's wait and see. Also, I don't think the sales of the 777, A330, A340 or A380 have been outstanding either. Are we sure that the data about only 1 747 being sold is correct? I thought that 5 had been ordered?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2445 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1658 times:
TO: CX747 - I got that figure off of Boeing's website, perhaps it's the only confirmed order of 5 intended and the customer is unidentified. I agree it's too soon to write off the 747 but the order drought is disquieting and if the XQLR variant isn't launched, I think it might be the beginning of the end for the venerable jumbo. True, the other widebodies aren't "hot", either but at least their orders haven't been practically nil. As a 747 fan, this is the last thing I want to see, I had high hopes that Boeing would launch the 747X last year but was quite dashed that they couldn't sell it. Hopefully, the less ambitious XQLR will fare better, maybe we'll get the answer later this month.
NWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1628 times:
To all those thinking about Boeing only producing 3 aircraft, you want to tell me why wouldn't it be the same with Airbus? Airbus aircraft are not any more advanced, modern, or efficient than Boeing aircraft.
As for the 757/767 age, the first flight may have been in 1982 or so, but by no means does that mean that they are not technologically advanced, or too old for today. They still are very modern aircraft, and most of them flying today are nowhere near 20 years old like some of you think.
The 747 has a long way to go IMO. I have a feeling that Boeing will completely redesign it, it would be like making a whole new program, but just with the same name on the tail, "747".
IMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6243 posts, RR: 36 Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1600 times:
To all who think this downturn is due to Septemberr 11, I assure you it's not. The airline business is very cyclical. This has happened every 20 years since the 1920s. Not to worry, in a few years the ailines will again be flooding Airbus and Boeing with orders.
PS : The current situation predates SEP 11 by at least 6 months.
Is grammar no longer taught is schools? Saying "me and her" or some such implies illiteracy.
Artsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 36 Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1541 times:
I continually see comments on how Boeing should drop the 753 and 764 because they are failures, just wait a few years when the current fleets get a little old, and the airlines that have 757's and 767's will buy the 753 and 764. They are both great planes, and when the time for replacement comes, boeing will have them ready rather than having to create a new design
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1536 times:
I think you're taking too short a view in a long-term industry.
Jumbo's are always the first hit by concerns within the industry, since they are the most expensive to operate. With a 767, one can always leave pax at the gate -- but flying 230 people in a 747 is a fast way to failure.
Now, if orders were pouring in the A380 and A346, then Boeing would be right to be concerned.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1496 times:
The original statement is wrong anyway... KLM ordered 3 aircraft for example, they just don't show up in the statistics yet for some reason (maybe the papers haven't been officially signed or the aircraft will appear on the 2003 statistics for tax reasons, but they have been sold). First to be delivered this year...
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10046 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1485 times:
Boeing updates its orders list monthly. The 3 KLM 744Fs have been ordered last week. Thats why they don´t show up until now.
But as many stated already, its a market problem for big jets in general. Airbus has the same problem, and that with even newer products. Compared to the sales of the last two years, the 777 is actually doing even worse in sales than the 747 this year!!!
Manni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23 Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1405 times:
Since 9/11 Lufthansa and Air France have ordered the A380, Qatar Airways is going to place an order for additional A380s soon, most likely. Finnaly Airbus did sign up quiet a few widebodies since 9/11 for Swiss, SAA, Emirates, Qatar, CX, ...
Nightcruiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1382 times:
Back in the mid 1970's, the 747's were not selling very well. Boeing almost cancelled their 747 program because of this lack of sales. But by the turn of the decade, sales began to skyrocket and the 747 program turned around for the good.
It appears a similar scenario is playing out now. You see, there are A LOT of 747's in operation right now, so airlines are pretty much stacked up with the Jumbos. When the 747-400 reaches its 20th anniversary in 2009, then Boeing will need to focus on developing newer and more advanced forms of the 747. The 747 program is far from over. So to all you Airbus fans out there....TOO BAD!!!:D
Erikr From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1333 times:
There was a very good feature in the Seattle Times about two weeks ago about the future of the 747. Below is the link. However, if you can find the actual paper, there were diagrams and details of all of the 747's competetion (ie 777, A340, A380...)
CX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4434 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1247 times:
While I will agree that there is a current lull in orders for the 747, I will not agree with anyone who says that production will soon stop. The worlds current 747-400 fleet is not in need of replacement right now. When those jets reach replacement age 4-5 years from now, then you will see 747 sales increase. I guess that the Qantas order of the 747-400ER and the Air France order of the 747-400ER have been forgotten. If these two airlines praise the aircraft, I would assume that other airlines looking for a boost in capacity and range will follow suite and order it or its sister the 747-400QXLR.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2445 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1154 times:
TO: Erikr - Thanks for the link, that confirmed a lot of what I'm thinking. Despite assurances from a lot of you, I feel the 747's future is much in doubt and that failure to launch the XQLR model would be a serious or perhaps fatal blow for the program. I hope I'm wrong but that's how I see it.
JU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1084 times:
I think the market is saturated with the B747.
As for what i see from Boeing, the 717 was a very big mistake. Doesnt it fall in direct competition to the 737-600? Even the 757 is seeminly becoming redundant, as Boeing has introduced the 737-800 and 737-900.
And on final note. What are the significant deferences between the 767-400 and the 777?
25 AvObserver: TO: JU101 - As formerly hub dominated routes "fragment", the 747 is being replaced with smaller, more economical aircraft better suited to reduced cap
26 AvObserver: Actually, several of you have made good points about the new A380, also. If the Boeing route fragmentation scenario is accurate, it also means the mar
27 Leezyjet: As the old saying goes "All good things must come to an end". The 747 has enjoyed the best part of 30 years without any competition in it's class, so
28 AvObserver: I agree with you Leezyjet that Boeing should focus on the Sonic Cruiser but I don't think Boeing should yet give up entirely on the 747, even though i
29 JU101: AvObserver, Thanks for your clarification. It makes a lot of sense. I am anyhow glad that there is an increased tendancy for an increasing number of c