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A320 And Pod Loaders?!  
User currently offlineN757tw From United States of America, joined May 2000, 113 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1606 times:

I found this picture taken at LAX -->


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Photo © Joe Pries



Notice the Air Canada A320, they look like they are loading it with a pod loader?! What's up with that? Also looks like there are short small pods parked behind it. Since when do A320's use pods? I thought they free-load bags.


N 7 5 7 T W

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCYLW From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1581 times:

All ACs A320s are containerized (pods?) aircraft. The A319s are bulk load.

User currently offlineA320-Addict From Belgium, joined Apr 2001, 250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Nope CYLW....

The choice to fit their planes with the automatic container system or to use the holds as 'free loads' actually depends on the operator that ordered them.

All A319/320/321 can be ordered with or without the system.

Most charters use the free load system (although Lufthansa does this as well ... they used the containers in the beginning, but removed that system from their planes)


AA


User currently offlineBen88 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1554 times:

Um he said all Air Canada A320's, not all A320's. You should read more carefully next time.

User currently offlineA320-Addict From Belgium, joined Apr 2001, 250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

Maybe he SCHOULD make his point more clear then next time and not use 2 sentences.....


 Big thumbs up

AA


User currently offlineLoadcontroller From Switzerland, joined Feb 2002, 85 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

Swiss has with all A319/A320/A321/A330 chosen the containerized version due to several reasons i.e. loading and unloading speed. And I tell you, my friends working on the ramp are REALLY happy about it. Just imagine on a A320 you would have to load almost 4 tons of bags piece by piece as like on a MD83. Your back will love it, too...

User currently offlineErasmus From Italy, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1532 times:

A320-addict,
And maybe you should write "should" without a "C".  Nuts
(Oh, by the way, thanks for the pictures.)
CU soon,
Erasmus


User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1518 times:

Pardon my ignorance but what would be the difference between the two? Would the bulk load a/c not have rollers on the floor of the cargo hold or something?

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineA320-Addict From Belgium, joined Apr 2001, 250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

You're very welcome Erasmus....

and yep..... I was too fast on that one !!  Big grin Big grin

AA


User currently offlineCrewChief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

LY744,

without containers you do not need any rollers on the floor, that would be unnecessary weight. Without containers the floor of the A320/19/21 is flat like the floor of a 737 or 757.
Some charter airlines use A320s which are capable of carrying containers, but as they do not have (or do not want to use) containers, they protect the loading system with pallets (e.g. Eurocypria).
LH`s A320/21s are containerized, but the A319s are bulkloaded.
BA A320s are containerized, A319s are bulkloaded but the system is protected by pallets, too.
AF A319s, well, some are bulkloaded only, some have containers in the rear or forward hold only.

CC32


User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Also, note the conveyor belt loader to the left of the rear bulk loader. Not all 320's have that door to hold No5. Those that haven't got it have a larger hold No4. I beleive holds 4 & 5 are not partitioned.

User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1441 times:

Bmi also have containerised A320/321, but bulk load them sometimes on charter flights. You can load bags directly onto the hold rollers without any protection, but it's limited to the number of times you can do it per year.
Most of the scheduled carriers use the system, as they are flying routes day in day out year round, where as charter airlines usually only operate on a seasonal basis so they would always end up with containers here, there and everywhere at the end of the season.



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineMetalBird From Portugal, joined Mar 2002, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

TAP Airbuses use containers, the A320 has 7 containers (3 front+4 back)+bulk load in the rear cargo compartment.

The TAP A319 has 4 containers (2 front+2 back)+bulk load in the rear cargo compartment.

Were I work at Horta International Airport (LPHR), its possible (I have seen) to make a turnaround time of less than 30 minutes in a fully loaded (pax and cargo) A320.

But usually the turnaround takes about 60 minutes, because there are usually other planes that have to be loaded and unloaded at the same time.

Some of the plane loaders that I know said to me, that after TAP switched from the bulk loaded 737-300 to the A320, work now is much easier, they are very happy with the Airbus cargo system, much better than the Boeing 737.


MetalBird


User currently offlineBoeing764 From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1398 times:

Yes at the airline I work for we can unload a containerized A320 in under 10 minutes and load it up again in about the same time period.

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Photo © Paulo carvalho


Whereas a bulk loaded A319 with a full load of bags takes about 15 minutes to unload and a bit longer to load!

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Photo © Joe Pries




From Dr. King's America to Nelson Mandela's Africa, the journey of equality moves on.
User currently offlineErasmus From Italy, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1361 times:

Hi,
for the people loading the aircraft, the container system might make life easier. (read: the work is not that hard), but there are a LOT of disadvantages.

I can think of these:
  • Business pax with short connections: without containers you can open the cargo door, take out a few "rush" bags which were loaded last, and bring them to the next AC in a matter of minutes. That is impossible with the container system.

  • It takes a lot more time to put oversize handluggage in the hold with the containersystem: the last container has to stand by on the ground, waiting for these bags and can only be loaded at the very last minute. So there is at least one man with an expensive machine waiting around + time lost.

  • With containers you depend on ground personnel and equipment. If they are not there for whatever reason. (e.g. too many A/C arriving at the same time), a lot of passengers will be unhappy: the lady travelling with the 3 yr old kid that wants her kid's stroller back at the aircraft's door (as promised), the traveller who had oversize handluggage who wants it back as promised at the a/c door, the businessman arriving at his final destination without his luggage that missed the connecting flight
  • The crew has to take there overnight luggage in the cabin or cockpit.


  • Conclusion: the containerised system is a little bit faster and easier if everything goes well and everybody is on time, but there are so many things that can go wrong or fail, that very often it causes delay, rather then a time gain. Handloading is perhaps harder work and may take a few minutes more than putting containers in, but things don't go wrong very often as they do with the container system!

    As a pilot I have flown for two different companies using the two different systems. I think the classic handloading is much more reliable and I prefer handloading by far. (Perhaps I would think differently if had to load the plane myself, I realise that.)

    I think that the arguments stated above explain why several companies (including Lufthansa, I've heard) have abandoned the container system and gone back to handloading the aircraft.

    Regards,
    Erasmus


    User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1871 posts, RR: 16
    Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1356 times:

    Erasmus, I agree with you... You would think differently if you had to load those luggage...
    For Business class or connecting pax, nothing prevents the airlines to put their luggage in the bulk compartment or in a dedicated container, that will be loaded in front of the dooro.
    A lot of airlines have this in their procedures.
    The problem is the handling agent: they should deliver those luggage immediately. But it means 2 drivers, or 2rotations for the same driver. To save on the cost, and EVEN if they should apply this procedure as per their contract, they will just wait for all the containers to be offloaded, and they will do only one trip between the plane and the terminal.
    Rgds Teva



    Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
    User currently offlineCrewChief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

    Erasmus,

    only business pax are entiteld to have short connection?????? Wouldn`t like to fly with your airline as Y-pax then.........
    And "Rush" baggage is, as far as I know, only baggage that has been lost/went onto the wrong flight, etc, and must now be delivered to the pax which is already at his/her final destination. If they don`t have the correct "security-check" labels they will be returned to Lost & found, anyway.
    "Short-con" or "HOT" baggage with a limited transfer time is usually loaded into a dedicated container and this container is usually located immediately behind one of the cargo doors so it will be off-loaded first. Time is here a matter, true, but as these short-connections tend to happen mostly at large hubs pax do need a "few" minutes to reach their next gate, too. And a motivated ground crew will make sure that the short-con bags reach their next flight in time. Please do not think that only you gods up front know what teamwork is...........

    Regarding the oversized carry-ons, they go into compartment 5 which has a separate cargo door (exceptions exist, true) therefore I do not have to wait with the very last container. Oh, btw, this is also the place where the crew-bags are.....(at scheduled carriers like LH)!

    Regarding the wait for carry-ons after arrival due to lack of staff, I assume you "enjoy" ground-handling by "well-known" Servisair..........otherwise the little Airbuses (319 - 321) can be made by two persons but usually get 3 - 5 persons here, so you might want to come to edds instead.....

    Lufthansa A320s & 321s are containerized while the A319s are bulkloaded.

    I agree that containers are faster (and more convinient) to off-/onload when the systems work well, but when loading manually one can use the given volume much better and fit a lot more bags into the compartments.

    CC32


    User currently offlineErasmus From Italy, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1318 times:

    Come on, Crewchief32,

    I know the system should work the way you and Teva described it. unfortunately very often it doesn't. (and not only with Servisair...)
    I have had delays on various occasions at different airports with different handling agents (Swissport, to name one) and I gave my view on the matter.

    I do not understand why all of a sudden you must use such an attacking tone against me?
    (gods up front,only business pax are entitled to have short connection?????? Wouldn`t like to fly with your airline as Y-pax then........., your general tone)

    Did I say anything that upset you or don't you like pilots in general?
    I can assure you that beeing a pilot does not make me feel superior to, for instance, the men and ladies cleaning the aircraft.

    I respect everybody and I haven't insulted anyone in my previous post. So please CrewChief32, next time answer me politely and I'll like you even more.

    Oh, and in case you feel inferior to pilots, get over it. You aren't.

    RESPECTFULLY,
    Erasmus




    User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 53
    Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

    I must say that this time I'm with Crewchief, there are too many pilots that are so keen to give (note I say GIVE) you their opinion on a subject, when they haven't got a clue about whats really going on.

    Example : 737 arrives onstand (after very last minute stand change) equipment is on way to a/c from planned stand. Capt sticks head out of cockpit window and shouts to female customer service agent 'Don't just stand there - put those steps on the a/c now' (no please or thankyou there). The steps he was referring to were designed for a Bae 146 or an ATP which as WE all know are much lower than a 737, obviously the prat upfront didnot notice this.

    "Business pax with short connections: without containers you can open the cargo door, take out a few "rush" bags which were loaded last, and bring them to the next AC in a matter of minutes. That is impossible with the container system."

    No it's not - takes no more time than offloading and stacking the bags on a trolley - in UK all transfer bags have to be re x-rayed anyway so they can't go straight to next a/c.

    "It takes a lot more time to put oversize handluggage in the hold with the containersystem: the last container has to stand by on the ground, waiting for these bags and can only be loaded at the very last minute. So there is at least one man with an expensive machine waiting around + time lost."

    Again thats what the bulk hold is for, and if you do have to leave a bin on the machine, that goes on whilst the jetbridge comes off - no time wasted.

    "With containers you depend on ground personnel and equipment"

    So do bulk loaded a/c offload themselves ??? ALL a/c DEPEND on ground personnel - you guys only drive WE on the ground do the rest.


    Erasmus, not having a 'go' at you personally, just a generalisation of a MAJORITY of the pilots I work with everyday. Big grin








    "She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
    User currently offlineErasmus From Italy, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

    This topic has degraded from an interesting discussion about a containersystem to a " let's shoot the pilots" topic.
    Well, I'm not going to participate in that.
    See you some other day in an other topic, maybe.
    Regards,
    Erasmus


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