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Should Air NZ Deploy B 747-400s For HKG-AKL?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2886 times:

Hey guys!

Air New Zealand used to operate a mixture fleet of B 767-300ER and B 747-200 into Hong Kong. Currently, they fly the B 767-300ER from AKL to HKG. And they do fly the B 747-400 into HKG occasionally.

I understand that HKG-AKL will go daily again very soon. And there is an increase in traffic for service between HKG and AKL.

Should Air New Zealand deploy the B 747-400 into HKG? Instead of their B 767-300ERs?

They have obtained their Flight Rights between HKG and LHR. And this is definitely on the cards. If they are to start service between HKG and LHR, we will definitely see B 747-400s flying for this route. By deploying the B 744 into HKG, you can actually get things ready for HKG-LHR.

Commments?

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

No. They shouldn't.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2837 times:

Why not?

Maybe they can do it with a mixture of B 747-400s, as well as B 767-300ERs.

HKG-AKL will go daily soon.......  Smile

I understand that they do deploy B 744s into Japan (Correct me if I am wrong)


User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

Are there any HKG-CHC flights? Is there a lot of demand between the two cities?

Obviously NZ will deploy the 744 on HKG-LHR. When are they going to start HKG-LHR?

Hkg82.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

Unfortunately, Air New Zealand does not fly between HKG and CHC. However, I do see a demand for this route. Perhaps with a B 767-300ER.

But I doubt they will do it daily......

As for HKG-LHR, I do see them starting this route within one or two years. They have already obtained their flight rights. However, they should first upgrade their B 747-400s by installing PTVs, New Business Class/First Class Cabins etc etc.

Comments?


User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Comments?

Ha. No they shouldn't if they can't fill them.

Right now, fixing up their other problems is first and foremost.

Why am I bothering to answer this thread...it's about the 3000th time this has been posted...



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

This is my FIRST post.

If you don't want to answer my posts, then you don't have to. I am sure there are many members who are willing to answer my questions.

 Smile


User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2769 times:

United

Forget it:

The capacity on the route is controlled under the Route service agreement between HongKong and New Zealand. Briefly that states the number of seats that may be offered each week between the city pairs. So if the agreement states 3000 seats per week, split 50/50, then Air NZ can only offer 7 767's or 3 747's a week. Obviously from the point of view that frequency beats capacity, all that ANZ can SELL is 767 loads, so why would you fly half empty 747s to Hong Kong.

And I do not know how many times you have been told "United", but ANZ needs to firmly establish the routes it currently flies, before wandering off on fanciful "what-if's". The loads and the yields are nowhere near adequate for a HKG-LHR service operated by ANZ when they fly via LAX to LHR already (and LAX is a complexing point for them from SYD, HNL, NAN, AKL and PPT). The marginal traffic offering LHR-HKG (dest AKL) ANZ can through ticket on any IATA carrier and earn money for just selling the ticket.

You have been told this many times - why do you keep asking the same question?

IF THE TRAFFIC IS NOT OFFERING, WHY SHOULD YOU FLY THERE. Think about it.

Oz777


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

No wonder there is a forum on airwhiners.net called 'Stupid Questions from Hong Kong member'!There is excess capacity in the market as it is!

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

What makes you think it is stupid to fly a B 744 into HKG? Do you have the figures for this route? Back all your opinions with facts before being rude.

Morgan Stanley Dean Witter did a study sometime ago. And they do believe that there is a market for Air New Zealand for HKG-LHR. You not only connect people from New Zealand to LHR but also people from HKG. They actually suggested that this route COULD be profitable. If not, they wouldn't have obtained flight rights between HKG and LHR.

They can actually go RTW with this route. Can't they?

Anyway, time will tell. But I do believe that they will start service between HKG and LHR within 2 or 3 years. Rumours have been floating around within Air New Zealand here in Hong kong!

One more thing, can't Air New Zealand connect passengers from Australia to HKG via AKL?


User currently offlineOz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2735 times:

Yeah right!!

People are going to fly further away from Australia to get to Hong Kong. The nearest AKL is to Australia is three hours, so you are going to add that time to an 8 hour flight. Look at an Atlas.

You talk about facts!! and then you state there are rumours going around the office.

The route HKG-LHR is NOT going to be profitable for ANZ solely on the basis of 5th Freedom traffic rights. And IF Morgan Stanley did a study, don't you think it would have been confidential for ANZ.

And ONCE again, ANZ have had the rights HKG-UK since DC-8 days - in fact BEFORE they had LAX-LHR rights. So it has nothing to do with the re-negotiation of the Air Services agreement over 12 months ago. In fact I very clearly remember explaining IN THIS FORUM, why the rights had been re-negotiated, and why they are held.

In the event that ANZ is unable to fly LAX- UK/Europe, ANZ can still service the destination traffic. Remember, NZ is not on the greatest terms with the US - no nuclear ships and ANZUS is now defunct just as two issues.

Perhaps we should tell the USA that the rumours in the HK office of ANZ point to some possible security issue on the LAX-LHR sector and ANZ is going to switch all that LAX hub traffic via HK. The FBI will love that one.

Oz777


User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

If you want ANZ to fly B744 daily on AKL-HKG, why don't you ask CX to upgrade their daily A340 to daily B744?

Although this route is high demand, but the demand is not high all-year round to support a daily 744. Same goes with CX.


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

Is the yield there for CX?If they can't fill a 744 now,NZ using a 744 would screw yields up

User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

The yields are probably there Donder, but CX wants the cargo capacity of the A340.

Oz777, LOL  Smile Very funny!

Can somebody please dig up the history of United Airline and tell us how many times this has been posted as a topic?

My 3000 times may be exaggerated, but probably not by much.

United,

RTW nowadays is a triviality. It's no longer such a big deal as it was. With crewing issues etc., it's one of the most expensive routes to fly and with global alliances having been set up, there IS JUST NO POINT.

What makes Morgan Stanley so authoritative? Name dropping doesn't help. You can provide the details of the study then I guess. Oops, it must be confidential...then why cite a confidential source...blah.






M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineMarara From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Okay Guys,

Who gave this thread three stars ????



I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

NZ still hold rights between HKG and LHR. That's for sure.

People in Morgan Stanley certainly know more than many people here. Analysts, FAs etc...... They make a lot of money.  Smile

Morgan Stanley, Merill Lynch, Goldman Sachs are the big three......  Smile


User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2640 times:

Actually I'm making my own version of ANZ 2002 summer timetable.

And I decided that 772 is flying AKL-HKG-LHR.  Big grin


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2636 times:

Air NZ is interested in the B 777-200ER.

The B 772ER does make sense..... However, HKG-LHR will likely be a B 744.

E-mail me for further discussion.


User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2621 times:

Do the words degeneration make any sense to any of you?

Analysts make mistakes all the time...they're not 100% correct.

Man...772's...what next?? ANZ will get A380's?

....



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineTullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1568 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2609 times:

Yes Coachman I think they will get A380s, particularly as they seek to expand tourism between CHC and Tasmania. They may also permanently lease an Antonov 225 to fulfill their freight requirements for Hoki export to Nepal. Once they've completed this, their finances will have improved sufficiently to invest in a number of 772s for daily services between CHC, AKL, WLG and HKG. LOL



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2600 times:

Yes they are interested in the B 777-200ER. I am sure most people are aware of this.  Smile

The B 777-200ER makes more sense than the A 380........ Especially when they need to replace their B 762s.

Someone who holds a CFA is definitely more trustworthy..... If Analysts are no where useful, then we don't need them. Why do companies like AOL rely so much on Analysts from MSDW?

Hey does that mean that you never make mistake? And you are always right in every aspect?


User currently offlineRmm From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2590 times:

I heard the re-launched Ansett International (Mark 6) will do the HKG-LHR run for AirNZ.

Why am I even taking the bait ???

Rmm


User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2583 times:

Yep! Just like Compass (Mark III) will start up and do Aussie domestic!  Smile

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2584 times:

LOL

 Smile

But anyway, AN International DID plan to fly between HKG and FRA before its demise.


User currently offlineAussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1766 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

United Airline:

I don't often get agro like this, but go back to Kindergarten, United Airline.

I don't question your enthusiasm but posting utter rubbish just because it is on your wish-list isn't the way to go. The reason these forums thrive is that people hope to pick up real information here and discuss real issues.

I was a big Ansett fan, and I'm glad to see you liked it as much as you do. However, Ansett is dead, gone, buried, kaputt - give it all a break.

You would learn a lot more by reading the posts of others here rather than posting your own nonsense.

No offence meant... but can't you read the signs? How many people have given you hints about what I am daring to say openly?


25 Post contains images United Airline : You should be the one to go back to Kindergarten. First of all, my posts are rated highly. Higher than your's I guess. One more thing, I have many res
26 Aussie_ : The question is who gives your posts star ratings? On the rare occasion I do start a post, I don't put my own ratings on it.
27 Hkg82 : What aircraft did AN operate to HKG & from which cities in Australia did they fly to HKG from? MEL & SYD? I wasn't aware that AN managed to get the ri
28 Skystar : AN operated the 747-400 & 767-300 to HKG from SYD (744/763) & MEL (763). On a rare occasion you'd have a 762ER do the HKG run. AN getting rights to do
29 Oz777 : ANI were to fly HKG-FRA. Complete and utter b...s..t. I bet that rumour came from the Hu Flung Dung agency in the Star Ferry ticket office. Air NZ mig
30 Rmm : Oz777 Not even cold hard facts appear to have any bearing on this guys train of thought. He'll just come up with another one - should AirNZ use a 737-
31 Jiml1126 : This is my FIRST post. It's not the FIRST post, similar question just goes on and on. You're just changing the word "will" to "should". However, HKG-L
32 Hkg82 : Thanks for the info Skystar! I knew that AN operated the 744 to HKG from SYD but didn't know if they also operated other aircraft & whether they flew
33 Marco : United Airline: No they shouldn't. If they really needed to, then they would have done so. A daily B763 is more than enough. HKG-AKL isn't LHR-JFK.
34 Post contains images United Airline : Jiml1126, Sources please? Wow....... This guy must be a really nice guy. At least he rates my posts highly. I appreciate that. That does not surprise
35 Jiml1126 : What source do you want? As I recalled, I never see a post regarding AN's HKG-FRA on this forum.
36 Oz777 : Yes there was a "confirmed" article in this forum that ANI were going to fly to FRA and CDG and FCO and DFW from HKG. It was posted by..... wait for i
37 Post contains images The Coachman : Jiml1126, My post was purely sarcastic. Of course NZ don't need A380's! I think Tullamarine has hit the mood of most posters here perfectly. On the ot
38 AirNewZealand : No offence, I am really stereotyping here, but have the citizens of Hong Kong heard of Sarcasm?? Its like this...He thinks you are telling the truth e
39 Post contains images Cathay250 : NoNoNo Desmond is quite an exceptional one in HK. Not all of us is like that.
40 Jiml1126 : I'm wondering what's United Airline's next Q. Let's see: -Should ANZ get 777s -Should ANZ get rid of 747s....
41 Post contains images Marco : ...what about: Should AirNz start serving peking duck on their flights? Just kidding des
42 Post contains images United Airline : Marco, I am sure they should...... That would be cool! Jiml1126, Yes to the First Q. But not the Second one. If Air NZ wants to get rid of their entir
43 KaiTakFan : A simple answer to your question... No they should not.
44 Jiml1126 : I never say ANZ will get rid of ALL B747-400 fleet. It seems like NZ will trade HALF of the 744 for 772.
45 B-HXB : What's this about Cathay adding flights from July? I had heard they want to add some earlier ones to enable same-day connections to mainland China, bu
46 Aerorobnz : you're half way correct Jiml1126...
47 Post contains images The Coachman : B-HXB, you need to get away from your AKL obsession . Read my post carefully. I'm talking about the 3 extra weekly day-time flights (from HKG) CX will
48 Jiml1126 : B-HXB, I think they're just shifting the time slot, not adding frequencies.
49 B-HXB : Heh, anticipating a change to the AKL schedules... the London news is old hat to me. Besides, it's 4 weekly flights, not 3.
50 9V-SVE : Dear Air New Zealand Passengers, We have big news for a major update: Our livery will be changed to a green tail, pink engines and wings, white backfi
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