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Why No London-Hawaii?  
User currently offlineFlight Level From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1937 times:

It is within the 744 range, even with a maximum load. Has there ever been a service like this or a planned service? Thanks.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing 747-311 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 795 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1911 times:

Thats a good question, i wonder why they dont?


Come fly with US
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

Well, it would be a leisure route. Not many leisure/charter carriers fly the 744. The low yield potential probably keeps BA from interest in the market.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFlight Level From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

Faro is a leisure route and BA does fine with it.

User currently offlineShaun3000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

Would anyone actually want to sit on a flight from London to Honolulu?? It would be SO LONG!! London-LAX is pushing it, in my opinion. London-HNL is insane.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1860 times:

LAX-LHR is not that long. At least, it takes less time for you fly from LAX to LHR than from HKG to LAX.

Perhaps the market is not there?


User currently offlineAussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Shaun3000 - I suppose you have never been on a trans-pacific flight then (try LAX-MEL or ORD-HKG for example)

User currently offlineAspen1 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

i would think that an airline would want to do at least once weekly service to honolulu. United's lax-lhr flights are always filled with passengers continuing onto hawaii, these being paying customers......u would think it would be in the best interest of the airline..


the flight would only be about 12-13 hours.....the flight would take u over northern canada then down to hawaii....by passing the united states entirely


User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=lhr-hnl&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

User currently offline2cn From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

Western Airlines operated this route I believe for a short period- it was not non stop, was operated with a DC10 (not sure which version) and had a stop in Anchorage, before continuing onto Honolulu... from what was said before on this site about it, they were loosing money on it and dropped it not too long after it started.

User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

Would there be enough pax to carry on a LHR-HNL nonstop?
I think quite a lot of HNL pax use to stop at SFO, LAX or at another US destination and after travelling around at mainland they just want to go for a few days to HNL...



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineTullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1553 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

As stated, it is probably not serviced due to low tourist yields. BA have no 744s configured as 2 class so it is hard to see them being able to sell all P & J seats. This would mean that they'd have to give these seats over to FF seats and therefore the route would be unprofitable.

Were NZ able to fill a 744 on the AKL-LHR route without stopping in LAX it could be possible that they could have their 744 stop in HNL instead of LAX but I wouldn't hold my breath.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

With plenty of B747s on the second hand market, is there a market for a single premium economy class style charter start up serving places like HNL, CPT, SAN from LON?

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1718 times:
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First of all, not a lot of people from the UK go to Hawaii, the mediterrenean and Florida are tourist hot spots for families and leisure. Secondly, a LON-HNL flight would be something like 14-15 hours non-stop even if u take the most northern route possible, a heck of a long time.

Arsenal@LHR



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1704 times:

A long time, like LAX-SYD, but in Premium economy, that isn't too bad

User currently offline747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

The service is not allowed under Bermuda II, at least so long as all other cities keep their service. If service was dropped to another US city, the route authority could be transfered to Hawaii. If openskies ever came, I know there might be some interest in this market. Perhaps LHR-HNL-SYD. I am told such a routing would save a little bit of time from LHR-SYD. However, I still would not bet the farm on this happening.

User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

How would LHR-HNL-SYD be shorter than LHR-BKK/SIN-SYD?

Think International date line, think longtitude...then try to say LHR-HNL-SYD is shorter than LHR-BKK/SIN-SYD.



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5083 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1652 times:

That is a good question. Maybe because there is a little demand for flights between these 2 cities.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

I was never aware of the restriction that 747firstclass mentioned. Nevertheless, it will be difficult, if not impossible to sell enough Business Class, worse still First Class, seats on the route. Also HNL is way beyond the pockets of the general UK charter market.

User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1606 times:

777ER's could easily fly this route as well.

User currently offlineCathay Pacific From Australia, joined May 2000, 1864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1599 times:

just for comparison.



LHR (51°29'N 00°28'W) HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) 7236 mi
HKG (22°19'N 113°55'E) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'29"W) 7259 mi
HKG (22°19'N 113°55'E) ORD (41°58'47"N 87°54'16"W) 7793 mi
SYD (33°57'S 151°11'E) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'29"W) 7487 mi




cathay pacific, now you're really flying
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1554 times:

While this route would certainly look impressive on an airline route map, the simple answer is that there is not enough traffic to operate a flight between these 2 cities, and whatever traffic there is would be low-yeild tourist traffic for people going on vacations.

We discussed this issue here before, Hawaii, while beautiful, is very, very far from Europe and most people are not interested in flying so far and spending so much money on a beach holiday.....there are many beach destinations available from the UK that are within 2 or 3 hours flying and are offered at very cheap prices. Those pax that are interested in flying from London to Hawaii have an amazing amount of choice........via all of the US carriers and their hubs. UA does (did?) offer a one-stop flight via LAX (but with a change of aircraft).

Dont forget that most major US east coast cities do not have nonstop service to Hawaii either - nothing out of BOS, PHL, MIA, IAD, etc. Only in recent years has CO offered nonstop service from the NYC area, out of EWR, to HNL, and that is because of CO's hub. UA in the 1970s offered nonstop JFK-HNL service with its DC8-62s, operating 2, 3 or 4 days per week, and dropped the service during the fuel crisis of 1979, and it never returned. Why? Hawaii is far, and pax prefer Florida,the Bahamas and the Carib for their beach holidays.

WA did give the LGW-ANC-HNL route a try back in the 1980s with their DC-10-10s..........I think that the flight operated twice perweek with mostly empty seats.....it was gone in about 6 months time.


User currently offlineGroobster From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

I certainly wouldn't do it non-stop and I regularly travel to the Far East, but not because of flight length, as has been mentioned above, it is shorter than most Europe to Asia flights.

If I was going to Hawaii, I'd do a stopover in San Fransisco, Los Angeles or another US city that services the Pacific islands as it is en route. I suspect thats what happens already.



Next flights: MAN-IST-AUH-MAN
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1499 times:

Faro is a leisure route and BA does fine with it.

Faro is much closer to LHR.....and can be operated with less capital intensive aircraft. LHR/LGW-HNL would require a commitment of 2 772/744 equipment if the route was daily.

Even the US majors kept their older DC-10's operating on the low-yield HNL routes prior to retirement long after most other former DC-10 routes had been replaced by the 767/777.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBriboy From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 366 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1483 times:

Air Canada operates the closest service that compares to UA's JFK-HNL service. AC operates YYZ-HNL non-stop daily. But, this seems more to create a one-stop service to ANZ than pure YYZ-HNL traffic.


next up: YYC, SFO, SYD, AKL, WLG, CMB, BKK, SIN, FRA, VCE, JFK
25 Post contains images Flight Level : OK, what about LHR-NRT-HNL. LHR-NRT I would suppose would have demand. And then, BA could compete with ANA and JAL on the NRT-HNL route. Tons of Japan
26 762er : Because FF miles are a major liability to airlines, most US carriers like to have a route to Hawaii because that is where they often dump most if not
27 Srbmod : Typically, when someone flies somewhere to go on vacation, they want to get there ASAP. This is why the Balearics, the Caribbean, and Florida are such
28 David_itl : Aren't the Faro flights operate by BA franchisee GB Airways? I'm sure BA handed it to them as GB Airways have a lower cost structure enabling them to
29 762er : I'm well aware of the problem with ATL-HNL and the 764, but it's a fact that management would really like to see it's return and they are still trying
30 DC-10inLB : Western Airlines operated the route in the early 80s. They used a DC-10-10, with a stop in Anchorage. It did not do well at all, really not much of a
31 Donder10 : Faro is operated by GB Airways-not strictly BA,but a franchisee.
32 NG737PSR : I can actually remember in the early 1980s (1984 I think) Hawaiian Airlines operating charters using DC-8-62s from Zurich to London Gatwick to Honolul
33 NWA Man : While it is true that tons of Japanese citizens fly to HNL each year, they have a giant amount of choice when it comes to these flights. ANA, JAL, UA,
34 Donder10 : This would be the lowest yield transatlantic flight of all time possibly!
35 Sllevin : I think one of the great points against the service is the distance itself. Hawaii is indeed beautiful, and the climate wonderful, but it's not truly
36 Donder10 : Exactly,when you go to Palma,Malaga etc for 200 rtn
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