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Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!  
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

Swiss International Air Lines said that it would like to follow the lines of Singapore Airlines and to position itself as a premium airline focusing on the core business of flying.

However, it has no intention of repeating what SIA and Swissair have done in taking small stakes in airlines.

Arjen Pen, Executive vice-president, sales and marketing said, "'The new carrier will focus on its core business, which is flying. Swissair went under because of its financial strategy of buying small stakes in second-class carriers in Europe."

"This proved to be unprofitable and the events of Sept 11 were the final blow."

"The strategy of the former carrier was to go after volumes. Our new strategy is to become one of the premium airlines in Europe, maybe even the SIA of Europe."

Mr Pen says that Swiss is investing "double-digit millions of Swiss Francs" in the Business and Economy Class, expects to cary 75 000 000 passengers and have a load factor of 75%.

Mr Pen also said that Asia was an important market for Swiss, "'Asia is our second-largest market after Europe-US, and it has picked up very fast in terms of bookings and load factors."

More information at the






Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

Umm. The last sentence should say:

More information at the

(I dont know why that has been deleted. It was there when I previewed it)



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

I think there's a script problem. Just click the link for the full article!  Confused


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

They have taken the very first step to become The Singapore Airlines of Europe. Their initials are SIA.  Wink/being sarcastic

User currently offlineMarara From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

I thought swiss wanted to be a good carrier...... Oh well.



 Big thumbs up



I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
User currently offlineNorthwest 777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

In the actual article it reads that they expect to carry 11 million passengers, not 75 million as you stated. Just thought I would clear that up for anyone who doesn't read the article itself.  Smile Thanks for posting the article!

Brian


User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

Swissair used to be the SIA of Europe (or SIA was the Swissair of Asia, depending on how you look at the situation), then Swissair lost the plot.

Good luck to Swiss- they might need it.


User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

Emulating SIA's success & standards in Europe is going to be a challenge, as well as following in the footsteps of Swissair, as they were recognised by many as Europe's best airline.

Their load factors to Asia are great. ZRH-HKG/SIN has the premium business traffic & BKK is one of Asia's prime tourist destinations.

Hkg82.


User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 32
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

First of all I think it is always bad to compare a European Airline with an Asian one. I don't know what Swiss has the same as SQ has. Why should we compare Swiss only with SQ and not with TG, MH, CX, JL etc. All this airlines are at least as good as Singapore Airlines, sorry, but I think this is just another non-sense pro SQ posting...


Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

You've raised a good point Swissgabe, considering the article is from the notorious Straits Times it's obviously a pro-SQ story. But it was Arjen Pen, SIAL executive vice-president, who made the comment about wanting Swiss to become the SIA of Europe. I don't know why he chose to compare Swiss with SIA but perhaps he wants Swiss to become Europe's most profitable carrier, as SQ is in Asia. I would think he'd compare Swiss with Swissair, but that's probably not appropriate considering the sensitivity over the collapse of Swissair.

Hkg82.



User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

The similarity between Swiss and Singapore Airlines is very strong.

Both are based in small countries within a much larger population mass. Switzerland's population (7 million) and Singapore's (4.5 million) are both insufficient to feed a large airline of 100+ aircraft, including a lot of widebodies.

Lacking a sizable local market, both airlines need to tap into other countries' populations, convincing them to fly with them rather than their own indigenous airlines. This strategy has allowed Singapore Air to grow into a huge operation which depends largely on foreigners. Passengers flying in asia will often take a detour in order to fly on SIA rather than perhaps a more direct route with Air China or Korean Air, for example.

This strategy is identical to that of Swissair in the 80's and early 90's. The comfort and service on Swissair were so good compared to the other major European airlines that many travelers, especially high-margin business travelers would go out of their way to fly through Zurich on SR. SR's greatest mistake was to abandon that strategy.

Good luck to them - I only hope they can make up for the decade they wasted while other airlines caught up.

Charles


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

I think this will be the only strategy which could work. Good luck.

User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6604 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

Whereas SQ does have many things to be proud of, they have things they should be ashamed of as well. Lets hope Swiss just follows the good examples and not the bad ones.

User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Cx flyboy
Thats the point, well, I think it is wrong for Swiss just to compare it self with SQ. There are hundred of good airlines out there and every airline should be better than all others, not only better than SQ or what ever...



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8017 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

I think SQ has really been successful for these reasons:

1. Singapore is a major business center, so there is already considerable premium traffic in and out of Singapore.

2. SQ makes major money on these routes from Singapore: KUL, CGK (JKT), HKG, SYD, TPE, NRT, SFO (via HKG), LAX (via TPE), and LHR.

In order for Swiss to be successful, they'll have to very carefully position themselves against all the competition from BA, AF, and LH, not to mention the discount carriers such as U2 and FR.


User currently offlineSQ772 From Singapore, joined Nov 2001, 1792 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

I don't think when Arjen Pen said he hoped Swiss will be like SQ, he was refering to having identical cabin service at all. I tend to agree with Cfalk that he was probably refering to the fact that Switzerland (LX) and Singapore (SQ) had many commonalities.




There's always a better way to fly...
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

LMAO@Swiss expect to carry 75M pax.That's alot more than LHR in a year.

User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

Well I think it's quite nice that Swiss wants to become the SIA of Europe. They are going to have a nice little fleet and I think they have the potential to be a large airline. However, a feeling tells me that a person from JFK would rather take BA to LHR and then to ZRH rather than LX to ZRH direct. Dunno why, just seems that way to me. I live in England  Laugh out loud

Swissgabe: "All this airlines are at least as good as Singapore Airlines, sorry, but I think this is just another non-sense pro SQ posting..." - I'm sorry, but if you look at the article, it is actually the Executive vice president saying that Swiss wants to become the SIA of Europe. Unless you think that Swiss is nonsense as well..



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3817 times:

RayChuang
I don't think that the question should be if SQ is good or not, successful or not etc.

Just to mention, do you really think that SQ makes money on the SIN-KUL vv? I don't think so at all...

Singapore_Air
A feeling tells me that there are thousands of passengers every year who are taking TG, LX, MH, CX etc from ZRH via X to SIN than SQ directly.

I didn't say that Swiss is no-sense, I said that the thing he "said" is no-sense for me...


Again, I think the thing which Arjen Pen said (where did he say this) wasn't very smart. If you want to build up an excellent airline etc. you should say that this should be better than an Airline "X". You simply have to be better than all other airlines, if his target is only to "beat" SQ and not all other airlines it can't work. I hope he knows that there are plenty of other nice airlines and some of them might be even better than SQ (maybe not in all points but there are airlines who are doing things better than SQ, plenty of them, no airline is perfect and can do everything).



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 377 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

Weren't predecessor Swissair already the Singapore Airlines of Europe???

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.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5275 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3711 times:

Weren't predecessor Swissair already the Singapore Airlines of Europe???

Indeed they were until they bought into almost every unprofitable airline in Europe and diluted their product to the point where it was almost unrecognizable from that offered by its partners. In the end, SR was a mere shadow of its former self.





Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3697 times:
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*ahem*, the Singapore airlines of Europe is BA.  Big grin

Arsenal@LHR



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

Marara,

That's a great reply, I could not have said it any better !!

Lets hope Swiss get their CRM in order and Pilots listen to each other.


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

Typical Swiss...

Their amibition is just like Swissair, always be the boss and always be the biggest...

Why do you think that they participated in Sabena? Switzerland was not a member of the EU, and because the plann with Austrian Airlines, KLM and SAS had failed, they needed a new partner. They wanted to be the biggest. A huge management mistake!

A normal start up airline is looking for the cheapest solutions, what does Swiss: new aircrafts (A343's,...)

Let them do!! Do not forget that the flying activities of SR were already lossmaking for more than 10 years!! Lucky that they had the catering,... So you couldn't see those figures in the yearly financial report.

Now what do we see: Swiss is making the same mistakes.

Guys, keep one thing in mind: you have a very bad and unrealistic management. And with the management you have now, I would not be surprised to expect very big difficulties in the future.

I don't want to start a ware here, I am just giving my opinion. I hope you will once realize that your home market is too small for such an airline.

Just my 2 cents...

Regards,
Frederic



User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3625 times:

Oh Frederic, we heard you many times with this. It is correct that it was the biggest management mistake to participate in Sabena. You did not read the the Swiss statement correctly. Swiss does NOT want to be big but good, quality not quantity I know that you Belgians can not understand this because the word "quality" is unknown with you, you know the word "strike" better.

25 ZRH : Frederic: BTW to buy new A 343 is perhaps the cheapest solution for the future. The MD 11 are extremely expensive in overhaul. We have serious problem
26 Swissgabe : Sabena 690 Go and talk about Sabena, I don't think that any Swiss guy needs your comments over here. We can discuss without you... I don't want to rep
27 Sabena 690 : I was not referring to Sabena here, I was only referring to the situation of Swiss. The Singapore Airlines of Europe, comme on... This sounds very nic
28 Swissgabe : Sabena 690 If you would have been related to the topic and if you would know what others are talking about you would have seen that I said it is bad t
29 Sabena 690 : Just to mention that if you want to be a leading airline you need to be better than all others and you have to deliver a excellent service better than
30 Keesje : Swiss International Air Lines mngt better stops walking with their heads in the clouds (again) and start being the most realistic and profitable airli
31 Saint-Exupery : Sabena 690 There's nothing written in the article about size, just about quality. Swiss aims for quality. And it's possible to have the "best" airline
32 Keesje : For me Best Airline interms of quality means - most destinations/ highest frequency's - best price (value for money) - most professional, least arroga
33 Saint-Exupery : For me Best Airline interms of quality means - most destinations/ highest frequency's For me this is not a quality criteria. If the airline doesn't fl
34 Post contains images Pothiabs : A small message to the people who are chasing Sabena 690 away : It might be usefull to wipe the Swiss chocolate out of your eyes and open them. Swiss
35 Saint-Exupery : Pothiabs "Swiss is starting off with the same arrogant attitude that brought Swissair down." What brought down Swissair was that they left pure high-q
36 Swissgabe : Pothiabs Already the first sentence with "to wipe the Swiss chocolate out of your eyes" explains everything... Guess you are the guy who thinks Swiss/
37 Sabena 690 : Thanks for the support Keesje and Pothiabs!! Nice to see that at least some people are not with their heads in the clouds. This is a mail I sent to Sw
38 Pothiabs : Nevermind SN690, Let time tell us whether Swiss was right or right. (thay can't be wrong now, can they ?!) It's easier to blame one's self-destruction
39 Swissgabe : Pothiabs It's easier to blame one's self-destruction on external factors than to admit one's own errors in judgment and decision-making. I think that'
40 Post contains images Gerardo : I knew and predicted it already, that with the first SWISS related topic, SN690 would jump out of his garbage can. Remember, SN690? To make it short:
41 Sabena 690 : I don't see any point to discuss with you further because I simply think that we have done this earlier too and I don't think that you can remember on
42 Post contains links and images Keesje : I think the most successful (private) European airlines Lufthansa, KLM and Easyjet are not so much focusing on quality over quantity but profitability
43 Gerardo : Back to the original topic: LX wants to be the European SQ. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with SQ? If you think, SWISS should only offer a chea
44 Lukebaker : Surely if Swiss wants to be a premium airline, surely it should be following the style of BA. A top quality product that is one of the lowest cost air
45 Swissgabe : Sabena 690 Well, with normal people they understand a simple sentence after reading it once, you need a little big longer. It shows your way of discus
46 Sabena 690 : I hope that the official investigation will convince you. And about safety: Sabena was the 3th safest company in the world. Swiss(air) would better in
47 Post contains images Keesje : IMO Swissair traditionally had a good product, an excellent service, a good image, a good Safety Image etc. The point is they have come of that mounta
48 Mac100 : As somebody who just flew SWISS (IAD-ZRH-BOS), I have to say that the service is better than it used to be on SR, but it's still a far cry from the se
49 Swissgabe : Sabena 690 I hope that the official investigation will convince you. As I said, earlier, there is already an investigation of the police against 3 for
50 Sabena 690 : Swissgabe, But it seems as you are proud of this fact that 229 people lost their life at a Swissair crash since you say that they "would" better inves
51 Post contains images Gerardo : Dear Fred, your first post started with: "Typical Swiss... Their amibition is just like Swissair, always be the boss and always be the biggest..." Do
52 A388 : Pothiabs "I think (and hope) Pieter Bouw will soon find out how things are done in the "Gonvéderation Elllvétiege" and pack his bags. Swiss doesn't
53 Gerardo : A388 may I ask, when you attended this lecture of Pieter Bouw? Thanks in advance Gerardo
54 SR3496 : hi It's always funny to see you guys fighting around SR/SN/SNBA/LX/SIAL!! But do I really need (another!) déjà-vu? Just to give another view about A
55 A388 : Hi Gerardo, The lecture by Mr. Pieter Bouw was given on October 11th at the University of Amsterdam. Regards A388
56 Gerardo : Thanks, A388 Just a question. You said in your previous message: "Therefore it didn't surprise me he went back to help the Swiss with starting up a ne
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