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Lufthansa Increase Flights To MEX  
User currently offlineAm777 From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 83 posts, RR: 1
Posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2055 times:

From October 28th Lufthansa will add 3 additional flights to Mexico City operated by 744, I still don't know if it's going to be a combi or full pax aircraft, flights will be operated Monday, Wensday, and Saturday:
LH497 Mexico - Frankfurt: departs 21:35 / arrives 15:10
LH496 Frankfurt - Mexico: departs 14:30 / arrives 19:45

So I guess that LH is doing pretty well in Mexico, let's see in the future more airlines increasing flights to Mexico, BTW does anybody knows what happened to the 3 additional flights of Iberia's operated last summer.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently onlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2739 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

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Photo © Jorge Rocafort

Does Lufthansa already operate daily service into Mexico City? It seems like this year Iberia decided to cut back a bit on their summer Latin American schedules. To Mexico the four extra A340 flights supplementing the daily 743 flights have not been reinstated for the summer period. This probably has to do with the slower and sluggish economic trends experienced this year when compared to the booming ones in the past years.

It is not to go without saying that 'maybe' without the Sept. 11 events, Mexicana would have started their own service to Frankfurt like it was originally planned for this summer period.

 Smile LatinPlane

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2018 times:

LH converted all their Combis (both -200 and -400) into all passenger versions in the late 90s.

Daniel Smile

User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1965 times:


LH does fly a a daily 744 to MEX, year round.

Although I'm happy for the extra service, this just comes to prove the negligence of the Mexican airlines. I have said it before and I'll say it again. PLANES TO EUROPE GO OUT FULL!! No wonder LH is taking advantage of this, but what bothers me is that the Mexican airlines are so slow in realizing their possibilities and don't move when they have to. I bet even LH would prefer to have MX take this flight and codeshare with MX under Star, but unfortunately this is the way things move sometimes in my country, and it really p*#%& me off. If LH can fill an additional 744 flight it means MX coulf at least have a flight to FRA 4 or 5 times a week with smaller aircraft, but get the officers at MX to realize this. . .

User currently offlineAm777 From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 83 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

Yes all the flights from Mexico City to Europe are always full, and I agree with you Cx 340, is sad that Mexican airlines doesn't take advantage of this situation, it's sad that with the size of the Mexican economy we only have 2 daily flights to Europe with our own airlines, maybe in the future they will change their mind.

User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2753 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

I heard that MEX would be one of the first A380 destinations. So it must be a very well running flight. I flew it back in 1995 and I was on of ten PAD's and they had ten seats left on that flight... just too bad that those were only in Business Class.  Big thumbs up So the plane took off in FRA with not a single seat free, so it can only be better for LH now...


User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1909 times:

Well I sure hope we get that A380. I do believe LH could fill it up, as well as Iberia and probably KLM if they ever get them, but the problem is I don't think MEX can handle an A380. The runways are long enough (close to 13,000 feet both) but I don't think the terminal is prepared nor the jetways have enough separation between them; maybe the B747 gates at the new extension of the international terminal can handle an A380, but I honestly don't know. However, when (and if) they build the new airport, which is supposed to be ready for the end of 2005, I'm sure the terminals would have no problem

User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5242 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 1893 times:


Good news for LH at MEX!!! Always looking forward and giving a better service.

This additional flight from LH show how slow is Mexicana and AeroMexico at Europe and OF COURSE ASIA!!!! FULL FLIGHTS FROM MEX-LAX route and MANY PAX in transition to ASIA (*plus the JAL flights at Mex via YVR). Same thing happened at ATL-JFK-ORD-MIA with people connecting to many European destinations...

It's time for AM to get a B777 fleet for MAD-CDG. And start fighting for AMS with KLM. It's time for MX to get the either the A330 or the A340...

Precisely today I got a ramp access and I was there from 4 to 8 pm taking some pictures.. while I had the chance to see AF Cargo B742, AFB777, CargoLux B744, KLM B744, IB743, BA744, LH744, Varig B767 sometimes sends the 777, Lan Chile B763 some times A340... just imagining how many passengers flying to Mex while you only see AM with only a fleet of 5 767s and MX still thinking getting wide body acft, long haul routes....

Don't know what else to said.. I'm very sad how MX and AM don't smell this kind of routes and frequencies.. they should wake up and smell the cofee...

Too many things to see Europe/Asia and small bussiness jets just like Continental is getting all thouse PAX.

ghost77  Pissed

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1877 times:

May be it's Cintra's problem?

Perhaps when Cintra sells AM and MX, both AM/MX will get new wide-bodies under other company's control.

User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3047 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1872 times:

I agree with you JIml1126. Cintra probably doesnt let the airlines expand. I think once they are off government hands they will grow and expand. because since the government took control of AM and MX their fleet size seems to remain the same every year. THere is like no growth or thoughts of expansion. Once they are in private hands these too will take off. I would like to see MX grow.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33355 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 1866 times:

Why in the world is British Airways not providing daily service between Mexico City and Heathrow? I mean, seriously, Mexico City is the largest city in North America and one of the ten largest in the world. Larger than New York City, Toronto, Chicago...and still no daily service to London? Double daily to Paris and Madrid, daily to Amsterdam, and soon to be 10x a week to Frankfurt. This has always bewildered me.

User currently offlineDavid_mx From Mexico, joined Nov 1999, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 1857 times:

As a Mexican I ask:

What happen to my country????

I'm glad for LH but again, MX and AM sleeping, cutting employment nor earning money, they are happy being a regional airlines, and cutting employment opportunities for aviation lovers.

There's people in Mexico with good ideas (including myself) and a world-class educational background, but no!!!!... Let all the world do money with us, because foreign are better than us... The "malinchismo" and the "centralism" are killing our country and our Airlines too... CINTRA Has to be sold A.S.A.P.

Good for LH.

User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3047 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 1846 times:

You go DavidMX  Big thumbs up. If i had the money i would take MX away from government hands and make it better. I have my ideas too, even though i don't live in Mexico. But sometimes it just makes me angry  Pissed to see that foreigners are getting richer off my country. Obviously everyone has their head stuck some where else when they dont look at business oppurtinities in the Airline business in Mexico. MX and AM should watch for Continental soon too, cuz they are already knocking at their door steps.

User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2739 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1837 times:

It is probable to a certain extent that it's Cintra's fault that the airlines do not expand globally, and at this time growth has stagnated somewhat due to the privatization of the carriers.

However, let us understand that it is not in the best interest of the Mexican government to fund potential losses at a time when the government is having a difficult time trying to balance out it's budget and reform its fiscal policies. Airlines should not be government agencies, but profitable independent enterprises. A government has no business running an airline, a government's business is taking care of its people. Nonetheless, a country's best interest is to have well established air-carriers for the well being of its economy and therefore it is necessary for a country to do the right things to insure that its carriers are operating under the right circumstances. Cintra (as a government agency) has done a great job with the airlines. It took them in when the airlines were about to go bankrupt and nourished them back to health. Cintra has done a marvelous job and although the airlines could be in a better position, on the other hand, they can also be like the rest of the Latin American carriers; weak and debt-ridden.

It is definitely a shame that on a daily basis Mexico only has 4 planes that bare its flag crossing the Atlantic ocean given Mexico's importance and status as a business and tourist destination in the world. But the case has always been this way. The airlines have always either been lazy and unimaginative to expand their horizons, or the circumstances have not been right for the airlines to do so. For whatever reasons, Mexican airlines easily loose opportunities, given them instead to either U.S. or E.U. carriers.

It is believed that AeroMexico might start service to Milan by summer 2003, thanks to its cooperation with Alitalia thru Skyteam, and like I stated earlier, Mexicana did have intentions of flying to Europe before Sept. 11. However, the next step will have to wait until the airlines are privatized and the economic situation improves accordingly.

AeroMexico, the Mexican airline to Europe, has been a too conservative while Brazil's flag carrier Varig might have a wonderful and impressive route system that spans four continents, but in reality they are about $800 million in debt, and have not declared a profit in five years. If things get worse with the Brazilian economy like my people are fearing and we have another Argentina scenario then Varig will definitely be in a bad position while the Mexican airline's conservatism will help them fly thru the chaos.

 Smile LatinPlane

User currently offlineDavid_mx From Mexico, joined Nov 1999, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

The worst part is that as part of the Mexican government is not doing it's job. CINTRA Is not working as a government agency and neither as a business. Mexican airlines are not accessible for most Mexicans, and CINTRA has been cutting employment, so as a government agency Cintra has failed, because we have a poor airline system and lack of routes or very expensive ones.

And as a business, there is no expansion or quick deciding in order to make of CINTRA a world-class company. Here are good examples.

For MX, they are thinking about getting ONE widebody (they have like a year thinking about it) for long-haul routes, but the renewal of the 727 fleet will let MX being a great regional.

For AM, some MD80 are getting older, but the DC9 must be replaced, and they have same year thinking about a replacement, they don't know if the 737 or the 717.

Aerolitoral needs RJ, but they have more than a year thinking about it (reason I've talked to people in Aerolitoral, answer: Isn't that easy to replace an aircraft) while their Metros are flying with less than 10 people because it's really expensive.

Aerocaribe, they are happy with their old DC9-15, but hey! Flying from Monterrey to La Havana in 7 hours is a joke, with stops in Veracruz, Merida and Cancun and a 30 min wait for each leg. If I want to fly from MTY to CUN I need to do it with 2 stops. Ridiculous!

So, as you can see CINTRA is not doing its job, An foreigner will do this when they come to private hands, when they come we are gonna be happy, with other people doing money with us... Viva el malinchismo.


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

About the Mexican airlines not flying or making money in the Atlantic/Pacific. Maybe CINTRA is just half the problem, the other being the very low wages of our country.

David_mx asks:
What happen to my country????

and got me thinking about it:
Give credit to those guys at the top who think they are of higher class, race or nationality (take Fox, Creel, Zabludovsky, Fernandez de Cevallos and many more politicians and CEOs as instances of a very long list). Those guys don't give a damn about our great nation, because they think they are European or something, lol. Those bad mexicans(because they are, as much as they regret it) that think of themselves as non-mexicans lie at the root of many problems: low wages, government not working, laws for the benefit of that very same elite, everybody receiving crap education, etc... Most of the people think in fleeing, rather that clean our mess here at home. That would be easier and less painful.

Mexico was conquered and thus developed under a model of short-sighted exploitation of resources and people. The US was colonized for their own benefit and progress. That is not a small difference my fellow citizens.

Sorry, this is completely off topic but I just got carried away by some ideas and questions posted above.

User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2739 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

What happened to my country? Well, maybe the fact that it was under 70 years of de-facto dictatorship run by corrupt politicians after it went thru a glorified "revolution" that didn't really achieve anything it was meant to do, just might have something to do with it...

I really think that Mexicans should take that word out of their national dictionary, "Malinchismo". Why blame foreigners for the country's deficiencies. It doesn't serve any purpose to play to poor victim "I'm getting conquered" syndrome. Instead, why not learn to play the game. Nationalism is a good thing, but it will not feed the people.

I'm really glad you guys are questioning what goes on because not too long ago people would take everything and just shut up. Every citizen in a true democracy has the ability to change things one day at a time. It will take a lot of time to clean up the mess and change things around. Nobody said it's going to be easy, but life is not supposed to be easy.

Anyway, the past is the past and history should be respected for what it is, because we cannot change history. So, we only have the future to work with.

It was the governments intention to sell Cintra last year, but the employees managed to stall the process for their particular reasons. Lets also remember that it's not really Cintra's fault if the airlines loose money. The fact is that all the airlines around the world (with a few exceptions) have lost money since last year and most have laid off many employees. This isn't particular to the Mexican airlines. You cannot expect them to do magic when it's beyond their ability to control the environment they have to work with. Mexican airlines are not in such a bad position like you might believe. They only lost around $40 million each (MX/AM) last year, compared to United Airlines whopping $2.7 billion dollars.

I believe that they'll be expanding in the not to distant future. Knock on wood...

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Photo © Eduardo Perusquia - Aviation Photography of Mexico

Porque Mexico siempre pa' delante y nunca para atras.

 Smile LatinPlane

P.S. Don't forget that we have good news coming soon. AeroMexico's DC-9 replacement is expected within the next few days, or so it is believed to be the case.

User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5242 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1715 times:

Well said Latinplane, you are just right.. we have to look forward and not backwards ANYMORE.. HISTORY is equal to OVER, DEAD... FUTURE is to right now and TOMORROW.

Things here aren't that bad as it's been mention.. almost all Mexican airlines are trying to do well and better each day.

Just to list a few things:

Aerolineas Internacionales - Looking for a new corporate scheme and improving their service day by day...

Aviacsa - It's a fact that this year their Dc9s will get out of service this year probably they 727s too and left a fleet of soul 737s.

AeroCaribe - Replaced their Dc9-15 for 31s, no longer Fokker's 27 on their fleet, codeshering some MX flights from VTP, which they have been a success!

AeroMar - They are closer to get ERJs than AeroLitoral...

AeroUnion - They stop depending from ICC Air Cargo Canada and set-up a new cargo Mexican airline with 2 A300s.

MasAir Cargo - Just added another DC8 Freighter to their fleet.

AeroMexico - I know from a friend that works in AM maintenance base that probably AM will get 737s.

Mexicana - Just received their 6 A319 named "VAMOS POR TODO" <--- This name speaks for itself!

Just read the new that they are really working hard on CINTRA so I hope at the end of the year or in 03 Mexicana and AeroMexico are not longer from CINTRA.

I think things will go better in my country, I believe in this new government... also just to remember ARGentinas is not doing well, and maybe Varig will stop growing just as an example the 3 new B737-700s from VR had been return to their lessor GECAS due to high operating costs and they will be replaced with B737-2s.. how is that for progress... for me that sounds really bad  Sad .

ghost77  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

After reading all these posts, it is amazing to me see how even with all our different backgrounds, origins, etc. all of us Mexicans (and our Latin American friends who are more than welcome to express an opinion of our country) can agree on one thing: this country is more than ready to grow, to take the leap, to come out to the world and say WE'RE HERE!!!!. But again, and as I believe everyone here concurs, until we, or more precisely, ALL our economic, cultural, politician and similar leaders lose their FEAR to do something (yes, I believe it all comes down to that), no matter how good and wise the proposals, projects intentions and willfulness of the people are, we won't go forward, we won't take that step.

As someone said, there are literally thousands of well educated, well trained and intelligent young Mexicans (and I can find many here at a.net), who really want to take the step and go the extra mile for our country. But then you have "leaders" who are more worried about themselves and the "que diran" (in english "what will they think") and that only brings shortsightedness, inefficiency and incompetence (Congress? Oh no, sorry, they are not even humans. . .). Fortunately, this seems to be changing little by little, but TOO SLOWLY sometimes, and I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting more tired each day of this incompetence and all the bs floating around (and I'm only 26!!). We have to give credit to Fox and crew though, they are trying, they might make mistakes but that is only human; the real problem is that people understand this and move forward instead of discussing matters forever.

Anyway, the negligence at Cintra to seize an opportunity like this to not only make profitable elections but to show the world that we are here and are coming at you is a clear example of what I'm talking about. Instead of getting their heads out of you know where, they are still discussing how to run an airline and not have a problem with anybody. I hope you know what I mean. And remember, Cintra is NOT the government, Cintra is a holding company CONTROLLED by several banks and financial institutions, tied up because their debt is at IPAB (this is really where the government comes in) and by the completely outdated and useless civil aviation laws, but they don't really do anything about this, and they keep discussing matters forever and meanwhile the US and European airlines are eating airline business in Mexico.

Sorry for the long post, but I had to get it off my chest. Hope I wasn't too harsh.

User currently offlineAM From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

Everything I would've said under this topic has already been said. I specially agree with AM744 and his comment about the real people who don't let the country move forward, as well as with Cx340 and David mx's posts.

I'd just like to add that AeroMexico is kinda disappointing me. Mexicana is retiring their old 727s and bringing new Airbus aircraft (both 320s and 319s, and 318s in the future), as well as opening new routes (Sacramento, MEX/DEN non-stop, Laredo, Santo Domingo). In the meantime, AeroMexico just hasn't said anything about their fleet renewal program. Yes, there are strong rumors that they will get 737NGs, but I really want to see that order placed, and move from the rumors to something certain. It's been too many times that we've read in the news: "AeroMexico to Announce Aircraft Order...", and still nothing. So I don't believe in rumors as much as I did before, you know what I mean? Supposedly, the DC-9s will already be gone by December, but if that's true, new aircraft would already be coming in. I mean, it's not like they're gonna replace a 16-aircraft fleet in a couple of months, it takes longer than that, and the order hasn't been made yet.

So, let's hope those new airplanes arrive soon. Y que ya hagan algo mas nuestras lineas. Mexicana debería de estar anunciando sus 3 vuelos semanales a Frankfurt, no Lufthansa.


"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
User currently offlineNorthwest 777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1662 times:


"Mexican airlines are not in such a bad position like you might believe. They only lost around $40 million each (MX/AM) last year, compared to United Airlines whopping $2.7 billion dollars."

This statement comparing the Mexicans carriers' financial results to those of United's is rather ridiculous, wouldn't you say? Granted, they did not lose as much money as United but the two are in Significantly different situations. United, besides having 2 of its own planes lost on Sept. 11th, (which not only physically hurt them financially but their is also a certain stigma now attached to United, unfortunately) has a vastly larger network than that of the Mexican carriers mentioned. While I do understand the point you were trying to make, I found this statement kind of silly. I do agree with the rest of your comments though, and I just felt I would give my two cents to the discussion.


User currently onlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2739 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

Northwest 777

Yeah, you're right. Comparing the Cintra's carriers, which roughly have a combined fleet of around 145 planes with the (I don't know) 500+ planes that United flies is like comparing apples and oranges, but I was merely trying to make it seem like the $40 million loss should be seen as a good thing cause it could have been much worse. Wrong comparison. I should use Latin American carriers because they're more at par with the Mexican carriers.

I point out Varig again, which has around 85 planes compared to AeroMexico's 73 or something like that. Again, the airline lost somewhere between $150 an $200 million for the fiscal year of 2001. Avianca, a much smaller carrier than either AeroMexico or Mexicana lost a whopping $200 million. Aerolineas Argentinas lost $40 million for the first quarter of this year. So even though the losses experienced by both AeroMexico and Mexicana are bad, when compared to other carriers on similar level they don't seem so bad after all. One of the reasons has been their conservatism, their low exposure to different markets.

 Smile LatinPlane

User currently offlineNorthwest 777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1646 times:


I also noticed that you said Mexicana had intentions of flying to Europe before September 11th. Do you have any idea where these services may have gone? I agree with you 100% on wanting to see more of a "Mexican presence" in the European skies soon.

User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5242 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1642 times:


Afaik, MX before 9/11 had plans for flying to FRA. But as you might see LH beat once again the mexican airlines.

Or was it another route LatinP??

ghost77  Smile

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineDavid_mx From Mexico, joined Nov 1999, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1624 times:

They were thinking about having the MEX - FRA route, with a 767 if I'm right. But as ghost said LH decide it first. Once again I'm impressed about the feeling of aviation lovers on this site, almost the same... We actually want the best for our country and our aviation system, but it's a shame no one (as far as I know) is a member who can be heard, something that is becoming kinda difficult in this country.

There are so many things on stand-by again, shame on our government and the little vision of SCT, IPAB, and the whole government.


25 Mexicana757 : DavidMX who knows what will the future hold for Mexico, I hope its something positive. I always look forward for something great to happen in Mexico a
26 Post contains images Eduardo Lepe : Well: As everybody knows LH as such as many Europeans Airlines have a totally saturation of flights to Mexico LK, KL, IB, AF have a dairy frequency to
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