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Delta To Order Boeing 737-600/700 Aircraft?  
User currently offlineDeltaBoy777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 411 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

Hey everyone,
Take a look at this Delta.com Fleet Sheet. Under Aircraft Delivery Schedule as of December 31, 2001 it says that Delta will order Boeing 737-800, 737-700, & 737-600 in 2002 and 2003.

http://www.delta.com/inside/investors/corp_info/fleet/index.jsp#onorder

Is this true about the -700 and -600 planes?? I know they already operate -800 jets.


Thanks and Gig Em!
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

At first, I thought they were just listing 737NG as one family, but I noticed that the 900 series wasn't mentioned. I would speculate that the rolling options they have for 737-800s cand be converted into any NG series. There has been talk of getting the 700 series for DLX, and the 600 to replace mainline 200 series service. By operating 600/700/and 800 series 737s, that would give them some operational flexibility in loads on routes. By ordering some of the 600 series, that would help that series out, since it has not been the popular member of the 737NG family. The 800s are the replacement aircraft for the 727 and to an extent, the 737-200. Delta will need the flexiblity that operating several different pax capacity 737s gives, so I think that they will start converting their options into orders for the 600 and 700 series once the last 727 leaves the fleet, and has been replaced by the 737-800.

User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1329 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Delta will not buy 737-600's or 700's. They have all but said that the 600 is too costly and the 700 does not work in the Express operation because the payrates are too high. So it's only -800's for DAL. The purchase contract allows DAL to use rolling options in just about anyway it chooses.

User currently offlineDeltaBoy777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3876 times:

Personally, If this info is true, I think it would be smart for Delta to invest in some 600's and 700's. This is a widely used series and it would help Delta stay ahead of the curve, especially since airline novices don't know about any planes except maybe the 737 and 747. And it would be a good replacement for the aging -200's, and -300's.


Thanks and Gig Em!
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1329 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

Right now DAL has MD88s, 737-200's, 727's sitting is the desert in short term storage. Additionally, 777's, MD11's, 757/767's and 737-800's are not being flown any where near pre-Sept 11 levels. DAL is not going to buy any 737's that it has not already committed to. However the rumors are hot and heavy about a new 100 seat aircraft for the DAL family. One from Brazil or one from France, but not a 717.

User currently offlineDeltaBoy777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

What aircraft manufacturer would be in Brazil or France?? Embraer??


Thanks and Gig Em!
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1329 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3851 times:

Embraer is building a all new 100 seat aircraft. And DAL is also looking at the 318.

User currently offlineDeltaBoy777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

That forsees the end of the rather unsuccesful 717. Although Delta will not touch the 318, because it is a Airbus. The Embraer maybe. I think the 717 would be smart, because alot of TWA 717 pilots are laid off now aren't they??
That would mean 0 to minimal training.



Thanks and Gig Em!
User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

MD88Captain,

One from Brazil or one from France, but not a 717.

Which one is there from France? I know that it could be from Germany (FD 928 or A318=>not really) but I don't know of a French 100 seater. Or does Atr want to strech it's Atr-72....?

Max


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3838 times:

What, Delta's going to order the A318? The 737-600 would make more sense than anything else. Why would Delta go out and buy something unlike anything in their fleet? The 717 and the 737-600 would make sense in the 100 seat category for them. I had heard rumors of them ordering the 717, but logically, the 737-600 would make more sense for them.

User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1329 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

Management is telling pilots that a 737-600 costs about what a 737-800 costs. And that is too much. Also there are rumblings of DAL being less than thrilled with BA's customer support. (I have no examples of that.) Management has said that we are very serious about looking at the new Embraer and the Airbus 318 to do point to point flying. This would involve a pull away from hub and spoke reliance and resemble Southwest flying. One rumor is that the business plan is evolving post 9/11.

DAL is adament about not wanting the 717. Apparently the Embraer is significantly more efficent than the 717 and the Airbus 318 comes with some significant acquisition incentives. ie. They are giving them away.



User currently offline0A340 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3812 times:

Right now DAL has MD88s, 737-200's, 727's sitting is the desert in short term storage. Additionally, 777's, MD11's, 757/767's and 737-800's are not being flown any where near pre-Sept 11 levels. DAL is not going to buy any 737's that it has not already committed to. However the rumors are hot and heavy about a new 100 seat aircraft for the DAL family. One from Brazil or one from France, but not a 717.

Dear MD88Captain -

I find your crystal-ball rumors rather interesting... And I'm very, very curious to find an answer to your riddle...

A few points:
About the DLX 732's. Certainly they cannot be flown for ever... The contract that captains and DL signed provides for 737-700 pay rates. Are they that expensive? In which case, why DL doesn't put together a 733 fleet (some are already under DL' colors)? A DL-xpress operation certainly does not need a brand-new fleet and ownership costs can be quite reasonable...

About the 150-seat mainland fleet to 50-seat connection fleet gap.
Excluding the very few CRJ-700, the connection jet fleet caps at 50 seats. Then we jump all the way up to the 100 seats. Is there a contact provision that taps connection carriers to any capacity? Has DL changed their often said position that 150-seat will be the min mainland capacity?

About the Boeing-exclusivity clause: although it may formally not exist, isn't a consideration of a competitor (318) almost out-of the question?

Just wondering aloud

George





User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3795 times:

737-600/700 are rolling options.

User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1329 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Here is all that I can tell you, George. And these are not my rumors. DAL is actively looking at a 100 seat airplane to fly more point to point routes. 717's are not wanted. DAL have sent people to look at the AB 318 and the new Embraer. And I think DAL would not hesitate to buy AB if the deal was right.

The entire DAL business plan is up for review and may include a move away from exclusive hub and spoke operation. The Business traveler is not flying and DAL may not wait for them to come back.

There has been much internal speculation about DAL closing down the Express operation. And it is very possible that will happen. Such a senario has the 737-200's going back into mainline operation.

The current contract only allows for 2 types of Express aircraft. 737-200 and -700's. Any other aircraft flown on Express must be flown with Mainline work rules.

The latest pilot contract allows for an arbitrator to set the payrate on any new aircraft, so DAL may be hopping for a cheaper rate on this new aircraft than the negotiated rates on the 737-600s et al.

DAL is also looking at 757's on Express. That would be a great 1 class aircraft for that market IMO.

The 737-200's are the last off the Boeing line and are still going strong. I'm told that they have any easy 10 years left flying the line, but I've never flown Express.

The Express rumors and the new aircraft rumor may not be connected. I've heard that the new aircraft is not for Express.

Interesting times are they not?


User currently offlineGregg From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

about the A318.... If you were a stock holder in Delta, you would expect Delta to look at all options, even if the looking is only to scare boeing into a better deal on the smaller 737ngs.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3702 times:

The A318 is heavier and less efficient than the 717. How could DL be not interested in the 717 but be considering A318?

The A318 has no commonality with the DL fleet, while the 717 would have some with the MD88.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3689 times:

Ok, I should be open minded about this and I can't believe or take rumors seriously, but someone suggesting Delta would go after an A318 has me rolling on the floor.

User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1421 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

Yyz717, note what MD88Captain said...'point-to-point flying'. That probably means more long-range routes. The 717 just doesn't have that range capability that the 318 has. In any case, they could always bandy the A318 stick at Boeing if they want the B737-600's.


M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

The 717 IGW has a range of ~2400nm, would this not be sufficient to get them to most places from Atlanta?

The A318 is too heavy for what it is. It needs a lighter fuselage to be successful at that capacity. The 737-600 hasn't really had much success either, for that matter.

It would boggle my mind if they ordered A318's. CRJ-900's or EMB-190's, I could see, but the A318? Doubt it.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineLeftypilot79 From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 455 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

I would love to see DL order the Airbus 318 just to see you guys with the "DEER CAUGHT IN HEADLIGHTS LOOK".....it would be priceless. Buy the time you come out of your daze and shock that they order the A318...they will have replaced it with the ERJ-190 and you can live happily ever after. LOL


aaron


User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

oops the IGW version is 2060nm, not 2400.


Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1329 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

I believe the attraction to the -318 is the acquistion costs compared to the 717. I told that Airbus would structure a deal that DAL "could not refuse". Rumor has it that DAL VERY recently was across the pond taking a hard look.

The 717 has very, very little in common with the MD88. The cockpit is a small MD11 cockpit and of course it has different engines. And it just isn't catching on is it. I think DAL learned its lesson with the MD90.

And apparently the Embraer 100 seater has impressed someone. I think it may be the leading candidate.






User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

I wonder why Boeing can't structure a favourable deal with the 717 if AI can offer a similar package with the A318?


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

[quote]The 717 has very, very little in common with the MD88. The cockpit is a small MD11 cockpit and of course it has different engines. And it just isn't catching on is it. I think DAL learned its lesson with the MD90.[/quote]

The cockpit is the standard Boeing EFIS cockpit, according to Boeing's website...

(ot)What's wrong with the MD-90?

I wouldn't exactly say the A318 is catching on like hotcakes either.

And what is up with Airbus selling planes at a loss to achieve market share? Boeing is listing the 717 at around $31million, last time i looked at their list prices, how cheap can Airbus be selling the 318 for? Must be REAL cheap...



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineDelta737 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 516 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (11 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

Yup, he's right and I've got a lot of "crow" to eat because the rumors are hotter than a packed 727 in PHX with a pack inop.

It's looking like either a 318 or the new embraerjet.

They're rumors, Leo's publically admitted to wanting something in the 100-seat range, but NOT a 737-600 or -700.

I've always said that DAL wouldn't buy Airbus, and if they do, I've got a lot of folks to apologize to.

But new planes ANY additional planes would be sweet.

Doug Taylor
jetcareers.com


25 Cba : I really don't see why Delta is opposed to the 737-700. This plane is extremely profitable and efficient. The A318 makes absouletely no sense at all.
26 Leftypilot79 : Personally...I would love to see the Embraer. Something other than Boeing and Airbus would be nice. Now its gonna be A vs B vs E wars. LOL aaron
27 Post contains images United Airline : They better stick with Boeing. I doubt they will order the B 717/A 318. If they want something in the 100 seat range, why not choose the B 737-600? Pr
28 A320FO : Sounds a little like all those "exclusive" deals some US airlines made with Boeing are starting to cause some heartburn. Boeing doesn't have to fight
29 Cba : Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if Airbus simply gave DL the A318 for free.
30 MD88Captain : >Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if Airbus simply gave DL the A318 for free.The cockpit is the standard Boeing EFIS cockpit, according to Boeing's web
31 DeltaBoy777 : I don't think Delta would take the A318, even if they gave it to them on a golden platter. Remember when Delta was given a A300 from Pan-Am way back w
32 Cba : Funny how the EU gets upset when Boeing has exclusivity deals with airlines, but Airbus is allowed to basically give away airplanes.
33 Jrlander : Remember when Delta was given a A300 from Pan-Am way back when... They hated it they didn't even paint in DL colors before they got rid of it. Actuall
34 Greg : These eclusivity deals were judged to be illlegal by the EU..hence, the actual contract agreements were never signed. HOWEVER, in order for the incent
35 MD88Captain : Scope at DAL is set at the 50 seat level and 70 seat level. Basically all flying at over 70 seats must be done by DAL seniority list pilots. Connectio
36 Jiml1126 : 717/318 is unlikely. They could just simply send their pax to Delta Connection. By the way, both 717/318 are not good-selling planes. I think. 717 nee
37 Flashmeister : I would and wouldn't be at all surprised to see an A318 in Delta colors. Airbus really needs a high-profile customer for A318... Right now, the A318 o
38 AC340 : I just want to add me two cents here. First and foremost, Boeing and Airbus operate in an Oligopoly market. Though the bottom line is important, Oligo
39 MD88Captain : To add to the rumors, DAL has a sheduled board meeting in July (3rd week?) and supposedly some decisions will be made then.
40 Srbmod : It would be ironic in a way, if Delta went out and ordered the CRJ-900 for mainline operations. With the aircraft sharing commonality with the other m
41 Brons2 : MD88Captain: But why do they hate the 717 so much? You said they've looked it up and down and they hate it, why is it so much worse than the MD-80 tha
42 Spacepope : Flashmeister- A few weeks ago America West stated that they have deferred delivery on all 15 of their A318's, along with several other orders. Take th
43 MD88Captain : Brons2. All I can say is what has been said before. They say it just will not work at DAL. There are probably a million variables in this equation. Ev
44 Brons2 : Hum. I don't meant to seem like I'm some 717 lover, because I'm not. Perhaps Boeing made a mistake by going to a very uncommon engine, or the 100pax s
45 Dalmd88 : Why didn't DL like the MD-90? It had a very bad start. It quickly was nicknamed MinDelay-90min. Too many systems were changed from the MD-80. I have b
46 TEDSKI : I think Delta should order 737-700s and 717s to replace their aging 737-200s. The 737-600 is not a very good seller compared to the 717.
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